Club Direction Poll

[Stonewall]

Re: Club Direction Poll

I just don't see why we would water down an already good club with none VAG cars when A. they already have their own clubs in town so there would be a needless overlap B. We would lose the identity that we have already built up (which may look bad) C. We have already made an impressive name for ourselves buy showing up at some big dang car shows this year and making a name for ourselves.

[Chris]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Forgive my frankness, but Brent, do you know what every BMW, MB, or other Euro owner wants? I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that there might just be a few of the aforementioned owners who would love for there to be an all-Euro club.

Your posts seem to convey an 'all-knowing, all-seeing' attitude that is incredible short-sighted. What would the problem be with a Euro club that had sections broken down by marques and one which fostered a friendly, open community of Euro enthusiasts?

You would still have the un-diluted VW element but with the benefit of a much broader scope of information and club participation.

I don't mean this as an instigation, but rather, I genuinely wish to know; why are you so afraid of change and progress? It seems to me that you wouldn't be happy with anything but the status quo. Where's the fun in that?

[Khyron]

Re: Club Direction Poll

So rather than a separate club, you want us VW owners to become a subsection of another, bigger forum, that doesn't even exist yet. Why not be in the sponsored club forums on beyond? You're asking for the same thing.

I genuinely wish to know why you assume that making a less specific, less exclusive club is considered "progress".

Khyron

[Stonewall]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Forgive my frankness, but Brent, do you know what every BMW, MB, or other Euro owner wants? I don't think it's unrealistic to believe that there might just be a few of the aforementioned owners who would love for there to be an all-Euro club.

Your posts seem to convey an 'all-knowing, all-seeing' attitude that is incredible short-sighted. What would the problem be with a Euro club that had sections broken down by marques and one which fostered a friendly, open community of Euro enthusiasts?

You would still have the un-diluted VW element but with the benefit of a much broader scope of information and club participation.

I don't mean this as an instigation, but rather, I genuinely wish to know; why are you so afraid of change and progress? It seems to me that you wouldn't be happy with anything but the status quo. Where's the fun in that?

No I don't know what the other euro owners want but have they ever posted here saying they want to join? Honestly Chris you don't know me well enough to start making acusations like that. I have no fear of change at all I just don't see why would should change everything just for the possiblity that some other euro owner will want to join the club as the name or anything else for that matter seems more friendly. If you read some of my other posts you would know that I think we should already have another section for mk1/2/3 so they can feel welcome and have a place to ask questions etc that won't get lost under a sea of other posts. There is such a thing as progress and such as thing and trying to evolve into a whole new image over night. I think we should leave the name as it is as we already have a public image, make the forums more VAG friendly then move forward as we have interest from other euro groups. Now explain to me why you came up with such uselss acusations for no reason.

[nismodrifter]

Re: Club Direction Poll

So rather than a separate club, you want us VW owners to become a subsection of another, bigger forum, that doesn't even exist yet. Why not be in the sponsored club forums on beyond? You're asking for the same thing.

I genuinely wish to know why you assume that making a less specific, less exclusive club is considered "progress".

Khyron

Double werd to that.

[Chris]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Brent, I don't see where I made any accusations. I'm sorry, but I don't. All I said was that "it seemed to me..."

"It seemed to me"

Now had I said "Brent, you are afraid of change. Brent, you think you are all-knowing", then sure, that's an accusation. I was very careful with my words so as not to offend. Obviously I need to work on that as it would appear that you took offence.


Geoff, you're a cheeky one, aren't ya? Borrowing my 'genuinely want to know' line. I really don't enjoy childish bickering and I think that you need to be a little more diplomatic with your arguments if you wish to be taken seriously.

Becoming a larger club with a bigger forum that has subsections does not make us akin to a paid sponsor spot on Beyond. You may see it that way, but I don't. Agree to disagree I suppose.

And as far as this progress thing; last time I checked, progress was synonymous with growth.

[Stonewall]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Personally I see to much to loose and not enough to gain.

[Khyron]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Geoff, you're a cheeky one, aren't ya? Borrowing my 'genuinely want to know' line. I really don't enjoy childish bickering and I think that you need to be a little more diplomatic with your arguments if you wish to be taken seriously.

It's called the ham-fist of reason. I don't have the patience to dance around the issue, and I am not a diplomat. I do alright in life with my debate skills, thanks.

Becoming a larger club with a bigger forum that has subsections does not make us akin to a paid sponsor spot on Beyond. You may see it that way, but I don't. Agree to disagree I suppose.

Stop saying us. If you make a big Euro forum, the leftover VW people (us) end up being a tiny subforum. Whether it's on beyond or euro-beyond or back in the MK4 forum on CVD is irrelevant.

EDIT: I see part of your confusion is "paid sponsor". I'm comparing it to a local community forum: http://forums.beyond.ca/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=122

And as far as this progress thing; last time I checked, progress was synonymous with growth.

A tumor getting bigger is not progress. Dilluting the content with other unrelated information is not progress. Bigger != better. Progress is generally an improvement which doesn't appear to be universally agreed on in this case.

And you're also forgetting the silent members who aren't comfortable arguing with "the powers that be".

You mentioned earlier that Brent was not a mind reader with BMW/Merc owners. Well, I am a mindreader, and I can tell you that almost every current NVD member joined because they had some interest in VWs. Specifically new ones.

An epic divination indeed.

Khyron

[Chris]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Geoff, as you will see, there have been polls to address this. Democracy still reigns supreme.

I respect your choice not to dance around issues but I don't respect you being an *******. You might be doing alright in life with your debate skills but I, for one, think that an exercise in diplomacy is called for if you want to be heard out (in this case, at least).

Why do I need to stop saying 'us'? It's 'us' that we're all talking about, isn't it? You, me, everyone - we all make up the group known as 'us'. As a part of 'us' I don't see why I cannot address us as 'us'. As for becoming a subforum, who's to say that it would be tiny? I'm pretty sure it would be bigger than 'tiny'.

You're right about progress being an improvement not agreed upon in this case. Again, agree to disagree, and let's try to remain respectful to one another.

And the silent members that you think are intimidated to speak up should not have any bearing on this. That is not to say that their opinions don't matter - they do! - but I have never witnessed someone new being shot down and told they're an idiot. So I don't see why they should feel intimidated. If they should be intimidated by anyone, it would be you. I can't say why people don't overcome the intimidation factor other than it's down to their personal choice.

I've never argued the fact that the members have joined because of their interest in VW's. Should the club expand to an all-Euro format, there would still be a place for them as well as a new place for people with other interests.

Now what happens when I buy a new car that isn't a VW yet i wish to remain part of this fantastic group of people? Wouldn't it be great if there was a club where we could all remain tight-knit yet share information about more than just VW's?

EDIT: Thanks for pointing out my 'confusion'. I chose the wrong description; "paid sponsor." Nice work there, Geoff. You're resorting to childish tactics. You are a great debater indeed.

[Chris]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Personally I see to much to loose and not enough to gain.

But there are some people that see lots to gain. I guess that's the problem - conflicting opinions. I suppose in the end it will be the vote that makes the decision for us.

[Cordialtea]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Chris Wrote:
I've never argued the fact that the members have joined because of their interest in VW's. Should the club expand to an all-Euro format, there would still be a place for them as well as a new place for people with other interests.

I agree and like this Idea.


Chris wrote:
Now what happens when I buy a new car that isn't a VW yet i wish to remain part of this fantastic group of people? Wouldn't it be great if there was a club where we could all remain tight-knit yet share information about more than just VW's?

I agree on this as well. I don't see why we can't all get along and stay here if we have a VW or not.

Cordialtea

[uv23]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Oi...

[tintin]

Re: Club Direction Poll

Oi...

Oi Indeed Yuval.

Can we keep this posting to where it should be, a discussion about the name change and direction of the club? The tone in here isn't going to attract ANY drivers of any make - well, maybe my Dad and his old Dodge Rampage, but no one wants him on here anyway. (trust me).

Let's all think before we type.

[R_Ethug]

Re: Club Direction Poll

mmmmkaayyyy

the club WILL expand more than likely first off into a VAG orientated club but heck if some guy with a merc or or bim wants to join up sure as hell they can!
there is nothing wrong with having a wider base guys..

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Club Direction Poll

I am not even sure what to say anymore.......