Weird Problem & Dealer Experience

[Kor]

Hey Everyone,

I don't post much but I like to read the forum, and know there are a lot of smart and experienced local VW owners on here!

Anyway, the other day I had a weird problem with my '02 MkIV J. The car was running fine in the morning, then when I started her up in the evening the "check engine" light came on and started flashing. I tried driving but the engine was basically unable to pull the car! The whole car was vibrating at low revs, th eexhaust was coming out of the pipe in short puffs. I had to get the revs up much higher than usual to even shift, and going up a slight hill in 2nd the car was almost stalling.

Want to know what I was thinking? "I've always read about that infamous coil problem, it has happened to me at last". I stopped and checked for obvious engine or exhaust problems, everything seemed fine to my untrained eye. So I made it home (it was by now quite late) and went to bed. The next day I start up again, drive around the neighbourhood, same problem. Car barely runs. Check engine light flashes.

So I call VW Roadside in Calgary and they are very nice. They advise me not to drive it any more if the engine light is on, and send a truck to tow me to South Center Fine Cars, free of charge. The guy at SCFC tells me he will call me later on in the day to tell me whats wrong. He also thinks its probably a coil.

Later that day I get a call... "We can't even start the car so we can't diagnose the problem. We'll call you in a couple days". I am pretty worried.

Two days later they call back. "There is nothing wrong with this car, why did you bring it in again?" I explain the problem. They tell me its running perfectly fine and that they didn't even need to do any work on it! I pick it up today and it does indeed run smooth. The deaplership said that they hooked up their diagnostic equipment and as far as they can tell the check engine light was never on, the car is as good as new. No coil problems, no other problems. No repairs were performed.

Now, I am not skilled at maintenance of VWs but I am pretty sure that if the check engine light is on for an hour over 2 days, something is wrong. I am also pretty sure some kind of error code is stored for later retrieval. This check engine light was on a long time, and the car was seriously not running. Yet the SCFC people say that this is "impossible" and that they found no problems and no error codes.

Does anyone have any ideas? The car is under warranty and no mods, so I am expecting a better explanation from VW. I am happy the car runs but kind of frightened that this is going to re-occur and leave me stranded on the highway at -20C some night.

The two days were warm days and so I don't imagine the problem was ice-related or anything like that.

--
Kor

[Canadian Turbo]

Hey Kor, you should post more, but glad to see you are watching the boards, and you should think about coming out to the next club meeting on April 2, watch the events section for more details.

Anyway onto your problem, very strange situation, almost sounds like the problem I am having with my 84 Rabbit (Hey Peter) but I have no idea what it is. As for your car I am not sure, does not really sound like coil problems, but just keep a close eye on it and then give hell to SCFC if anything happens. At least it is getting warmer out in case you get stuck.

Sorry I cannot be of more help, maybe someone else can shed some light. I find it weird that it would not start at all then it is fine

[Kor]

Thanks guys! I will definitely be posting more, I haven't had my Jetta long and in the winter its pretty hard to really get enthusiastic about it (every wash just makes it dirtier... grrr...). I'd like to get some pics of the car on here eventually... after a spring wax...

I have been looking into the problem more this morning, and here is what I have come up with.

Possibly a coil problem, as you suggested, that was due to changes in temperature. In Calgary it has been rapidly cooling and heating lately. However, since the car seems OK now I will wait to see if I have further problems (I can always get this fixed later, and performance seems as good now as it has in the past).

It might have been a fuel problem. The morning of the day I had the problem, I filled up a full tank (premium of course) at the Petro Canada by my place. A friend of mine this morning said that it sounded like it might have been more than a coincidence that I had this problem right after filling up. So I called the station, and asked if there had been any problems. They tell me that they had some water in their fuel tanks and that several customers had complained. I then called the company and they also told me that they had record of an incident at that station and that I could contact them if my dealer told me I had any damage as a result, etc etc.

What do you guys think about the possibility of water in the tank? Right after fueling it would probably have been stirred up, then when I parked for the day it would have settled to the bottom of the tank. Thus the next time I started the car I had a problem because of water being sucked into the engine. I don't know a "lot" about how modern engines work but I would guess that this water would be vaporized (causing the engine to run like hell) but the engine would still work. Then it might be pushed out though the exhaust system. I am not sure what effect water vapor would have on the catalytic converter. Eventually I guess all the water would be gone and the engine would suddenly go back to "normal" if there was no permanent damage. Even the dealership would have had trouble detecting it (maybe).

How does this theory sound?

Also, can anyone confirm - if the light was on, is there a code stored somewhere? Or is it possible for the engine light to come on and go off without leaving any evidence?

--
Kor

[CalgaryB5]

I cannot understand why the service advisor said there was no fault code discovered. The OBD will leave a code on whatever that trigger the CEL. It is possible that the CEL go off but the fault code still remain.

It is so obvious that is an engine running problem. Next time don't give any chance to them and demand them to check the fault code or show to the advisor the CEL right away.

Who did you talk to in SFC? S/He just filled you up with B.S. :eek: .

[Kor]

I don't want to name names or anything, but it wasn't Ken.

[Khyron]

LIES LIES LIES! Cel leaves codes - they cleared them most likely. Listen to Peter you must, and deal with Ken.

NEVER drive with a flashing cel. Even trying to move the car is not a good idea. You could have seized the entire engine. However I believe environmental problems (emmissions etc) are forced to be flashing cels too, even tho they are not critical.

Solid cel is usually drivable - solid cel is what happens with coils.

I'm no mechanic tho - perhaps post in the 1.8T forum on vortex?

Khyron

[Kor]

I will post on a couple of the other forums tomorrow, maybe I can get the attention of some of the super-techies out there. Thanks for the idea!

Lets say for arguments sake that it was a coil problem due to the cold/warm weather shifting or something like that. And lets assume that they might have just reset the code and given me back the car. And lets assume that right now the car is running ok. Am I likely to notice this problem again anytime soon? Assuming the worst of the winter is over, would I be likely to go all summer with no problems, or am I more likely to have another massive breakdown in two weeks? Going even two or three days without my car is tough, I have no alternate means of transportation...

When the CEL started to flash I whipped out my trusty VW user-manual-booklet-binder-thing and looked it up. I think that it says something about it being likely to be an environmental issue and that it is safe to continue driving at reduced speeds to a nearby service center. The CEL was definitely NOT solid, it was flashing. Is this a good indicator that it wasn't a coil issue then?

[yetta]

hey guys I heard petro canada is not the only gas station with the problem. Shell screwed up their fuel as well and got some water vapor in gas causing engine to screw up... Man don't ever let your dealer ship/service BS you. They are just like sales people, a bunch of lairs. I had my share with BMW. They BS me pretty good until I got pissed of and blew up at them. They they're nice to me since... ( I had to get the oxygen sensor changed 4 times on my dad's BMW)
So far my 2001 1.8t yetta only had engine light on 1 time.. and it quickly turned off. I try to get my fuel at the same place to avoid trouble.. (don't know if that works) I think different gas stations probably have different mix of fuel.. I have no idea how my car really works so I could be "BS"ing

[seanfournier]

an MIL can come on and go off again and clear the code itself after the car starts with enough succesful starts...

sounds like one of those incredibly rare and isolated things. if it happens again though give fluidic or myself a PM and we will vag-com your car to see the problem.

[Kor]

Thanks guys. I have been driving it for two days now (and I drive pretty hard...) everything seems just fine. I checked my invoice from SCFC and there is actually a breakdown of what steps they performed, including checking coils and looking for engine codes (so they probably actually did those things). I am just going to pretend that it never happened and that my Jetta is invincible.

[Kor]

I think i'd better become a member... when/where is a good time to hook up with one of you guys to purchase a membership card?