Coilovers or bags

[Adcodo]

Just wanted to get some opinions. As some of you know, I have JOM blueline coilovers on my car... and it rides sooooo well...NOT! The last owner wanted to lower the car for cheap and got these, not the best decision. So far I've changed everything that he did to the car because he used junk parts and I didnt like his "style". Knowing how coilovers are, I wanted to get some opinions on bags. My question is that do bags handle just as good around corners as coils? Im a pretty calm driver but when I feel like it ill go fast around a corner lol. If i were to do bags I'd probably go for Airlift slam series with a Autopilot v2, but If i were to put on better coils I'd go for bilsteins or KW's with a bigger swaybar up front and one down rear.

[Danaldson]

Re: Coilovers or bags

Short answer: no, bags do not handle as well as a coilover like kw. But, they will handle better than a sh*t coilover setup.

For a car that will probably never be tracked (as we live in Calgary) bags will handle as well as you would need them to for a daily driver in the city. You can throw it into corners hard while still being able to slam the car in parking lots.

I loved bags on my mk4, super comfortable and handled great. I say go for it!


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[Adcodo]

Re: Coilovers or bags

Didn't know you had bags on your mk4 Danny.. I'd like to get some other peoples opinions too, or their experiences with bags

[MK4Sam]

Re: Coilovers or bags

I love the ability of bags to be able to alter ride height on the fly, but I would always be paranoid of the chance of blowing a bag. I mean you can blow your suspension either way essentially, but my opinion I prefer coilovers.

[Geobmx4life]

Re: Coilovers or bags

I'd love to have bags on my cars, I just can't justify the $$$ as a good set of coilovers are roughly half the cost...if money was no object...I'd go bags.

[MechEngg]

Re: Coilovers or bags

Both have their pros and cons.

Coils
- Are less likely to leave you stranded somewhere if something malfunctions (also less to go wrong)
- Same spring rate no matter the height you have it adjusted to
- Have to drive more carefully on unknown roads instead of just airing up
- Less lows if that's what you are really going for

Air
- Very comfortable, and comfort can be adjusted on the fly (less pressure = smoother ride, more pressure = higher spring rate = better cornering) so i wouldn't throw handling completely out the window to be honest
- It's something not very many people have and will honestly be a huge talking point of your car amongst friends
- Has to be installed perfectly to be reliable or else you will consistently run into problems and issues


My background in mk4's
I ran my stock suspension in my 2003 wolfsburg jetta for about 2 years, changed out the suspension for FK streetlines. Terrible choice. I slammed my car down very very low and was bumping my subframe every 20m as i drove down the roads. The back end would bounce up and down constantly and i wasn't very happy with it. I ran them one summer and one winter I believe before i gave up on them. They were seized from the road debris, the front weren't willing to adjust anymore and the rear shocks were basically blown.
Upgraded to bags (slam xl fronts when they first came out, airlift performance rear tapered sleeve bags). Ran those for a summer on my wolfsburg.
Got my GLI and threw the airride in that one the next spring. Been running air in that car for over 3 years now i think...it was summer and winter driven for two years before finally getting a winter car last year. Over the two winters i ran into a few small issues with the airride, first being that one "up" valve got frozen on a day where the car was parked for 18 hours at work and i was leaving at midnight at -35 weather. A simple space heater fixed that in a few minutes and i was on my way. Secondly the cold to warm cycling of the compressors multiple times a day really took it's toll on them. Cold, warm, sit, cold, warm sit, as well as maybe some vibrational issues lead to all of my compressors pistons eating themselves into the cylinder walls. Two of the three were under warranty to be replaced so i did that and got them back and they have been ok now.

Overall, going bags is a good plan if you have the extra cash laying around to do it and you are mechanically inclined to do the install as well as fix any problems on the road which may pop up.
I'd make sure your car is 100% up to date with maintenance and then i'd go bags with an upgraded REAR swaybar only, no front sway, you will need to remove it for the install of the bags to be able to lay frame. You will also need to notch your frame for air so that the weight of the car doesn't rest on the axle, it's a good idea to get that done before the installation takes place. Also have a COMPETENT person there who has installed airride before, someone to GUIDE you through the install, but physically do the install yourself so you know exactly what you did, where you put everything and how you routed it so you can diagnose and fix it in the future. I'd be more than willing to help you for a day help you set up your trunk, and another day to help run lines and install the bags correctly. Make sure the entire trunk setup is 100% leak free and working 100% before even thinking of installing the suspension on the corners, if you don't get it 100% before you run in then it is far more difficult to diagnose and fix later on.

As far as setup is concerned, Airlift front struts (slam or performance) will both work for your application. For the rears i'd recommend either the firestone 7076 rear bags from AAC if you want to ride extremely low, or if you plan to poke a bit and ride a bit higher to not burn your fenders i'd recommend SS-5 bags with IDF rear brackets which you can get from ORT. Airlift actually has a beta program out for their V3/H3 management which is a pressure based/ upgradable to height based management. I would not recommend going for this beta version if you have a daily because you should be expected to run into problems. I'd either go V2 if you want pressure based or E-Level if you want height based management. I'm not going to go all biased on you like i typically would, but make sure to discuss the benefits and downfalls of each type of management with somebody or read up a bunch on it before finalizing your decision.

Sean

[kujiwara]

Re: Coilovers or bags

If you drive your car a lot and isn't tucking yet or want really good handling eg 30000km per year you probably want coilovers. If you don't drive too much or like it low bags will be fine. But blown coilovers will never leave you stranded, blown bags will, our Mercedes bags gave up in Vancouver and we had to fly back to Calgary then go back ther to pick up the car after a week, not my best experience with bags.

[Danaldson]

Re: Coilovers or bags

If you drive your car a lot and isn't tucking yet or want really good handling eg 30000km per year you probably want coilovers. If you don't drive too much or like it low bags will be fine

Imo, the amount of kilometres you drive in a year shouldn't have an effect on the bags/coils debate. I drove my old r32 for a good 6-7 months on bags (over 25,000kms) through winter and summer and only had one issue. A rear bag got punctured. BUT.... That was from me not installing them properly. As far as i know Kyle has not had any issues either since he has owned the car other than doing an upper rebuilt kit on the fronts. So his set up now has over 60,000 kms on it between him and I, PLUS whatever kilometres martin had on it when he sold it to me. Bags are reliable if done properly.

If you have a full system properly installed, you shouldn't have any issues driving your car a ton.

[flipstah]

Re: Coilovers or bags

I drove my bags 5k kms days after it was installed. No issues.

Bags are dependable if installed properly, just like anything.

I'm also going to bring the Golf AutoX very soon. On bags.

[Adcodo]

Re: Coilovers or bags

Thats alot of info Sean! and thanks to everyone else for chiming in. The car is getting parked over winter for sure cause I have to do my head gasket and chains. I am leaning alot towards bags but just wanted to make sure it's what I wanted. If you remove the front sway bar wont you have shitty handling...?

[flipstah]

Re: Coilovers or bags

Airlift V3 starts at $1600USD. V2 is cheap.

[Adcodo]

Re: Coilovers or bags

What site are you looking at Don? Im starting to do alot of research.

[flipstah]

Re: Coilovers or bags

What site are you looking at Don? Im starting to do alot of research.

www.bagriders.com Stanceworks forum also has a great section

Don't buy from Bag Barn. Buy from Colin and Calgary Autoworks.

[MechEngg]

Re: Coilovers or bags

I don't know how much i can stress this but i would highly highly highly not recommend going with the new Airlift V3/H3 during the Beta phase for a few reasons:
- You are new to airride. You don't know what to expect at all and cannot figure out if it is an overall system level problem (design flaw) or an installation error or a malfunction on your system alone
- You need to give accurate and reliable feedback to airlift directly, i'm not saying you aren't capable but as above, you are new and don't know what to fully expect
- It is a BETA phase, there have only been a handful of units in testing (i know of 3 only) and while the results have been promising so far there are still bugs and hiccups which require program tweaking and fixing. AKA downtime especially in Canada when the production shops are in the US.


For research check out the airride technical section of VWVortex: http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisp...Air-Suspension
As for pricing and options, as much as i love CAW i'd check with Andrew @ Openroadtuning and see what he can do for you. He can not only provide you assistance in choosing the system that is right for you, he will also provide a comparative price and will provide you all the assistance you could ask for during the installation and use of your system. He goes by "Buck Russell" on VWVortex and has been around for a long long time.



As for shitty handling, honestly i don't drive my car hard enough to feel the difference. I'm basically a granny driver and the air suspension and the low height i drive at prevents me from going too fast even if i had the desire to. If you want good handling there is a completely different approach i would take which would include H2Sport spindles, coilovers, LCA's, etc.

[Danaldson]

Re: Coilovers or bags

i would agree with sean. if i were to go air again, i would wait a good 6 months- a year after after v3 has even available to the public. Just in case it is buggy. for now i would choose between switchspeed/v2/elevel.

As for the sway bar thing, Your car is going to be so low that the sway will probably make little to no difference anyways. I pulled it on my mk4 and didn't feel any crazy body roll or anything like that. If you keep it in, its gonna hold you up high.