Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

[Kor]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

What is the feature that makes the B better?

Costs less, same solenoid, holds boost the same, and the S is easier to tune and IMO looks better with just dials.

You tune it exactly the same way, there are no more parameters.

B has a warning function that I think is useless, thats about it.

If you don't have a boost gauge or other display, then sure, it has that built in so its worth it.

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

the ability to pull up high boost points is always good, especially when tuning to make sure you aren't having surging issues. You can't always be looking down at the gauge when tuning so this displays you last high to ensure you aren't having issues.
Depending on how high of boost you are running the warning parameter can be helpful.

I plan on hiding mine in the car where it wont be seen, but it is nice to be able to pull up info to ensure things are operating like they shou;d

[DeanerF]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

just dropped off bits with topgun coatings in the NE. $75 for the manifold and $55 for the hot side. Not bad for keeping things cool. I spoke with a number of VR-T guys who had not ceramic coated and all complained of under the hood temps skyrocketing under heard driving

And by skyrocketing they mean, melting your hood....


but seriously it gets friggin hot

[Kor]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

the ability to pull up high boost points is always good, especially when tuning to make sure you aren't having surging issues. You can't always be looking down at the gauge when tuning so this displays you last high to ensure you aren't having issues.
Depending on how high of boost you are running the warning parameter can be helpful.

I plan on hiding mine in the car where it wont be seen, but it is nice to be able to pull up info to ensure things are operating like they shou;d

Ok. I would rather have the cheaper Profec S which really is going to do the same job, and get a logging system like from Zeitronix which will actually tell you useful information, unlike the Profec B. But whatever floats your boat!

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

you realize the Profec S is like maybe $20 cheaper...if not almost on par at every major supplier? There is barely any difference in the price so why wouldn't I get the latest and greatest?

I also looked at the Zeitronix kit to do some additional stuff but found something a little better with more adaptibility that I will install down the road to track all the vitals.

I'll be datalogging using a VADPro as well which will keep some things, as well as codes monitored.

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

Cool, then you can help me tweak mine next year haha.

Jason I hope this helps.

PROFEC B SPEC 2 Electronic Boost Controller

Here's how to set it up:

1) change the units to psi as documented in the manual.
2) turn off the boost controller
3) do a test run to see max psi - this is max boost set by the wastegate only. make note of it.
4) determine % increase for desired boost.

say wastegate boost is 10psi, and your desired boost is 14.5psi.


dB = desired Boost
wB = wastegate Boost

((dB-wB)/wB)*100 = %

in our case:
((14.5-10)/10)*100 = 45%

5) SET = 45% in this case
6) GAIN = do not touch yet ... leave @ 0% for now
7) SET GAIN (aka START BOOST) = dB - 4psi ... 10.5psi for this scenario

WARNING = dB + 1psi ... 15.5psi in this case
9) LIMITER = 4%
10) go for a test run. you will notice that the boost doesn't build smoothly. this is where u adjust the GAIN. bump up the GAIN by 5% increments. then retest after each increment. if it starts to overshoot your desired boost, then you've gone too high. back it down 1% at a time 'til it no longer overshoots desired boost.

that's it ... pretty simple

how do u know what your desired boost should be? learn to read a compressor map

NOTE: if your max boost @ SET is higher/lower than desired, adjust as necessary ... it's not dead-on accurate


Here is some info I found on another forum (SRT) that should help you out:

Definitions and things you need to know before you start:

SET This is how you set the boost pressure. Rather than setting it in psi or kPa, the Greddy unit allows you to adjust it as a percentage value, from 0% (greddy unit essentially turned off) to 100% (greddy unit will set the boost as high as it can). This setup demands a certain amount of trial-and-error to properly configure it since you have to make adjustments, then drive under WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and see what the maximum boost pressure achieved was throughout the entire RPM range. SET SHOULD BE SET TO A CONSERVATIVE VALUE WHEN BEGINNING TO TUNE YOUR GREDDY UNIT. 30% SEEMS TO BE A CONSERVATIVE SETTING BASED ON MY TESTING AND BASED ON OTHER REPORTED NUMBERS FROM EVO OWNERS AND TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE LINK BETWEEN SET AND GAIN (see GAIN below).

GAIN is defined in the manual as the value to adjust the "boost consistency". You don't really need to know exactly what that means. You should set GAIN to 0 when beginning, and you will then test the car under WOT while paying attention to the boost pressure. If the boost goes up and then falls off at higher RPM, you will want to increase the GAIN by a conservative amount (5% should be relatively conservative to begin with, then when you want to fine-tune it, you can go down to intervals of 1%). When you increase the GAIN value, the corresponding boost that you will go up to will be higher even if you leave the SET value alone. GAIN SHOULD BE SET TO 0 WHEN BEGINNING TO TUNE YOUR GREDDY UNIT.

START BOOST (also known as SET GAIN because that is what is displayed on the unit when adjusting this setting) is the lowest boost that the Greddy unit will begin increasing the boost from under WOT. You want this to be as close to the SET value as possible, since you want to keep as close to your desired boost as possible. However, setting it too close to the SET value will cause the boost to spike. You should set this to a conservative setting when beginning to tune your Greddy unit. Then you can fine-tune it later to get it as close to the SET value as possible without causing the boost to spike. Fortunately, you can set this in psi or kPa, thankfully Greddy didn't decide to let this be adjustable in % like the SET value. START BOOST SHOULD BE SET TO YOUR DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE MINUS 4 PSI (about 28 kPa).

WARNING is the maximum boost that you do not want to exceed. Fortunately, you can also set this in psi or kPa like the START BOOST value. When the boost exceeds the WARNING level, it will kick in the LIMITER, which decreases the boost a certain amount that you can set. WARNING SHOULD BE SET TO YOUR DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE PLUS 1 PSI (about 7 kPa).

LIMITER is the boost percentage that the Greddy unit will lower to when the WARNING boost pressure is hit. LIMITER SHOULD BE SET TO YOUR SET VALUE MINUS 4%.

PEAK is the peak boost value that the unit has seen since the last time it was cleared. To clear it, go to the peak boost display, and hold down the set knob until the unit beeps and "---" is displayed. IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO CLEAR THIS BEFORE YOU BEGIN JUST IN CASE YOUR UNIT HAS A HIGH BOOST ALREADY RECORDED.

LAST BOOST shows you the last boost that was recorded every time the accelerator is released for 3 seconds. TURN LAST BOOST ON BECAUSE IT IS A GOOD DIAGNOSTIC TOOL WHEN TUNING YOUR UNIT.

Keep in mind that when displaying in kPa, it does not show it technically in kPa, but rather misleadingly in bars, which Greddy inconveniently tries to justify by sticking x100 kPa next to the display. Therefore, 100 kPa will be displayed as 1.00 x100 kPa. Psi will also unfortunately be displayed in psi x10 so that 19 psi will show as 190, adding to the confusion.

Another very important thing to keep in mind is that when you first power on your car or the Greddy unit, WARNING will be set to 14.5 psi (100kPa, or 1 bar) until you interact with the Greddy unit by pressing any button. This "feature" is not documented in the manual.

Also keep in mind that atmospheric conditions affect the operation of your boost controller. When it is hot, you will get different results than when it is cold. One possible way of solving this issue is tuning your Greddy unit under the "Lo" mode for when it is relatively cold, and under the "High" mode for when it is relatively hot. Unfortunately, two modes are hardly enough for somebody that needs to account for very different summer and winter climates, and also for more aggressive settings for when increased performance is desired.

The maximum boost that you will see is also not consistent throughout the gears, which adds even more to the confusion. Unfortunately, if you've already increased your start boost to the maximum setting that doesn't give you surging, then there seems to be no way to get around this variance in boost pressure from low to high gears. I don't know if this is a limitation of the greddy unit specifically, or if it's something inherent to electronic boost controllers in general. The only two things that you can do to compensate is the following:

1. Set it to the "safest" of the settings that does not trip your limiter. To do this, tune the unit to your desired boost pressure in fifth gear.

2. Tune the "Lo" and "Hi" settings corresponding to having the boost maximized during the low gears and during the high gears. This would require you to manually hit the button to switch to the "Hi" setting when you shift to third gear or whatever you started tuning your "Hi" setting at. This is why Greddy makes the wireless remote switch that straps to your steering wheel to switch between "Hi" and "Lo" settings.

The following steps should be taken in exactly this order, taking into consideration all of the previous information:
1. Change boost pressure units to psi if so desired (see manual).
2. Set WARNING to your desired boost pressure plus 1 psi (about 7 kPa) (see above).
3. Set START BOOST (SET GAIN) to your desired boost pressure minus 4 psi (about 28 kPa)(see above).
4. Clear PEAK boost value (see above).
5. Set LAST BOOST to ON (see above).
6. Set GAIN to 0 (see above).
7. Set SET to 30% (see above).
8. Set LIMITER to SET minus 4% (26% if you followed #7).
9. Test for boost falloff at high rpm. You should probably do this in a wide open area with no other cars nearby and preferably no cops. It is also good to have somebody in the car with you that can watch the gauge while you concentrate on not wrecking your car. If there is no boost falloff, then go to #10. If there is boost falloff, then increase the GAIN by 5% and test again. Keep in mind that when you increase the GAIN value, the corresponding boost that you will go up to will be higher even if you leave the SET value alone. Repeat until the boost pressure does not decrease, or until you feel surging. If you feel surging and the boost pressure still decreases (not sure if this is possible) then decrease to the last level that you did not feel surging at.
10. Increase SET by 2% and adjust LIMITER accordingly, then test again. Keep increasing by 2% until desired boost level is obtained.
11. Increase START BOOST (SET GAIN) by 1 increment and test until surging is felt or the WARNING level is hit and the display turns red, then decrease to the previous setting.

Once you have followed these steps, you will have roughly tuned your unit. To fine-tune it, repeat steps 9 and 10 except this time only increase or decrease by 1 increment.

Here are some number that some of the people on the board are using.
I would start from the base and work from there. Every car will be different.

Low setting is at 15 psi, with no dropoff. with the 12-15psi W/G spring.
LO--
Set Boost: 30%
Gain: 20 psi
Set Gain: 23 psi

High setting is set at 18 and has about a 2 psi drop off. Unless you are completely in it, there is compressor surge when shifting within your low RPM range. So this setting is really completely useless for normal street driving.
HI--
Set Boost: 45%
Gain: 20 psi
Set Gain: 38 psi


Adding the in the end for Big turbo guys with Wastegates that have a top and bottom nipple.

If you are running the profec B spec II EBC then your line setup will be as follows:
On the solenoid - make sure that you have "nipples" couming out of COM & NC port. Also make sure those are in tight - as any leaks would screw everything up. Then, run a line from the compressor side of the turbo to the bottom part of the wastegate.
Measure how much line you need to go from the TOP of the wastegate to the COM port. Run that line & hook everything up. Then find a good place to "T"-into the first line that we run & put a plastic T in it. & from that nipple run a line over to the NC port on your solenoid.
Recap - COmpressor to bottom of the wastegate - also tinto this line & take it to NC port. Then run a line from COM to the TOP of the wastegate. & you're all done.

Wastegate is being closed shut by the spring inside of it. You run a line from the turbo compressor to the bottom of the wastegate. As the turbo builds pressure so will the pressure on the underside of the wastegate increase. This will push up on the spring & open up the wastegate. Now, it is obvious that any leaks in this line would result in no pressure buildup on the bottom of the wastegate so it would never open. Causing your boost to keep rising.... So, - when you T into this line it goes to the NC port (Normally Closed). So, no leaks would develop. Now, top of the wastegate is open to atmosphere. BUT - with profec - when the solenoid activates - it will open the port from NC to the COM (com goes to NC & NO - & when one is open the other is closed). SO, what is going on now is that you're sending pressure from the turbo to the upper part of the wastegate as well & this will press down together with the spring to keep the wastegate shut. So, boost keeps rising. Once desided boost is achieved - the solenoid will start closing a bit - shutting off the pressure going to the top part of the wastegate & causing the wastegate to start opening. ALso, every time you're sending pressure to the upper part of the wastegate - you're also decreasing pressure to the bottom part of it. & vice versa. /

[turbomeyers]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

i ran the eo1 greddy controller . this time im not sure what im going to use

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

you dont like the greddy ctonrollers or something?

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

Picture Update: Feb 9, 2008
Picked up all sorts of Parts.


Intake finally arrived (thanks Alexi), got the stuff back from the ceramic coaters, and clutch finally came in. Engine could go in as early as tomorrow depending on what goes on as I have been swamped with work and have stuff I need to finish before Monday.

I want to pass along a huge thanks to Paul (VWSM) from Burt & Jack's for helping sort out the clutch. He went out of his way to ensure i got what i needed for as cheap as possible and as quickly as possible. Definetly a huge help and I would HIGHLY recommend going to see him if you need stuff. Great shop, awesome location, and great guy to deal with. Thanks Paul.


The goodies:

Intake-






The Turbo Parts that were ceramic coated -






The new ACT heavy duty clutch and pressure plate







You will remember I plan to keep this as streetable as possible hence the solid disc clutch. If I burn through it and it slips...so be it. I replace it next winter. I really didn't want to need a steel leg to deal with a 6 puck disc in traffic, and while I am aware there are sprung 6 puck discs no where had them under $600. Got the ACT overnighted from California for $400, and after speaking with Shawn at MMP he recommended it.


- Rob come pick up your new toy.

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

February 10th, 2008 - Turbo Bits go together like LEGO

So with all the pieces to the puzzle finally present, minus the intercooler and a few other minor things that can be bolted on later the fun began....putting it all back together.


I still had to switch the oilpans, as the stock one was still on there, so we turned the engine 90* in the stand to make life a little easier than crawling around on the ground and undid all the bolts and swapped it out. One was being a real piece of $hit so we were forced to hammer a 12 point bit into it and wrench it out. Gonna have to go grab a new one from the dealer tomorrow.

Old pan still on the block:



Once we removed the pan:


New pan installed and torqued down properly:

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At this time it is very easy to also install the oil return line fitting that bolts into the oilpan here:

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Put some permatex high temp thread sealer on the last few threads being careful not to get any near the leading edge as it can mess up the lines and cause oil starvation to the turbo, i know this is a retrun line but i was still careful.

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Spun the engine back around to the normal position, spun the stand round so we had access to the side the clutch bolts on so we could begin doing that.

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First we aligned the flywheel

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Then bolted it up using NEW bolts. They are stretch bolts so you must replace these everytime.

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Little trick to stop the flywheel from spinning while you torque it down properly.

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Next up using the clutch guide to ensure it was on straight we mount the new ACT VR1-HDMM clutch

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And then fitted on the heavy duty pressure plate. Its sick that its yellow...too bad you will never see it haha.

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And then bolted it up.



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Was now time to get the engine out of the stand and back into the lift

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Random action shot of graeme haha

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With the stand out of the way I could now bolt up the manifold which was impossible due to the stands mounting plate being in the way before

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Put on the new exhaust manifold gaskets

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Followed by the manifold

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Next up we bolted up the Tial Wastegate. Tip for those doing this, you actually seem to need a small washer to get it to fit properly. The stock bolts are too long and will push into the end of their holes in the manifold. We found some spare ones kicking around and it tightend up great

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Then I bolted up the turbo, this was a serious pain in the ass because the ceramic coaters got coating on the threads, so one bolt got f@cked up and i gotta get a new one.

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Next up we hooked up the wastegate dump pipe

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And then bolted up the 3" DP. Im not using a gasket in here, as many others have found they just keep getting destroyed.

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Then bolted the dump pipe to the downpipe using the supplied clamp

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Next up was intalling the oil return flange and line to the turbo

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It helps to install the tranny mount piece now so you can see where you can run your line. We found we had too much return line and had to cut about 3" off of it.

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We were able to get the oil return line on this far, but it will not for the life of it go any further. Any tips? i tried putting oil on the leading edge of the hose and the nozzle but it doesn't make a difference.

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Next we replaced the release bearing in the transmission with the one that came with my clutch kit.

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Is this the proper way it is supposed to go in the tranny, or does it need to be flipped around?

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This is how it is left at the moment, it was getting late, I had hockey earlier and an early morning meeting tomorrow, plus I need to replace a few bolts before the engine goes in and it becomes a real pain in the ass to do them.

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My parts table has emptied out quite quickly tho, only a few things to do, including the new fuel pump, injectors, spark plugs, and a few other bits.
Tomorrow the transmission will bolt up and the engine will go into the car once the few things that slowed us down today are sorted out.
If someone can confirm the release bearing in the tranny, as well as an idea for how to get that hose all the way down, we can then move on.

Cheers.

[cam_wmh]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

This is coming together beautifully.

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

thanks

[asp gti]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

looking good dude! cant wait to see this thing in action in the nicer months

[DeanerF]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

i think there as 2 short and 2 long allen heads in my kit, and my wastegate bolted up fine . . .tahts weird.


also, the oil return line. thats about as far as mine got ( i think i got it just a bit over the last barb. But i couldnt get it to the bottem. Not a big deal though, hasn't leaked at all yet

PS: looks like the manifold was alot easier to put in with the block out of the car.

those bottem ones are a royal fucking pain when its in the car. trying to kneel onto of the valvecover and reach down to tighten them... hahah

[RONDAL]

Re: Screw weight saving....just add more HP (Project Turbo Smurf)

February 11th, 2008 - We Shall call it E-DAY...cause you know what happens

Well after last night's work there was only a few small things left to do before the you know what had to occur.
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So I decided to finally change my water-pump. People have been saying do it and I've been lazy, so i finally went and got one with the metal impeller today. So we tossed it on...stock pulley is on there damn tight, VW must use superglue from the factory.
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Goes on here
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Stock one was on so tight I ended up breaking the impeller trying to get the bolts off in the vice...oh well...they were gonna break sometime.
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Threw on a new serpentine belt as well before it went into the car, much easier to do out of the car than in.
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Threw the engine back into the hoist in the middle of the garage and got ready to mount the transmission.
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Properly installed the shift fork in the bell housing
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And then mounted it up onto the rest of the engine
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I also installed the starter at this time into the transmission
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With that done we gapped the spark plugs to 0.28" as was mentioned previously in the thread
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And got everything tidied up before going back in
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And so the last big lift finally began
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We had to take the cold side of the turbo off as it was hitting the strut bar. Remove one or the other or it wont go in easily. Also if possible have someone guiding the DP. Mine got caught on the heat shield and had to be pulled back before going in properly.
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One the front was down we bolted it in so it wouldn't move, makes getting the rears a little easier when one point of the triangle is fixed.
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And then lowered 'er in the rest of the way
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To achieve a nice final result:
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And just cause i wanted to see what it would look like i bolted this up temporarily.
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We called it a night after that....got hockey in an hour and need to sort out some other stuff. Glad to finally have the engine back in its home. It looks good.