Federal Election

[Kor]

Re: Federal Election

The bad track record of the conservative party is in the past, but not so far in the past! This was the most recent conservative government, it is easy to make it seem like a long time but in terms of governments it is quite recent. Geologists would say that thousands of years are really nothing; I think in politics one or two government terms is not huge! Many of the very same people from the previous conservative government are still in the party now.

I do not understand how you can say that you don't care about the past record of the conservative party, then say we should give them a chance, and if they do wrong we will "live and learn". The time scale for this "live and learn" idea is going to be several terms, so why is what happened several terms ago so irrelevant? In six years, seven years, etc, will you be clammoring to elect the liberals regardless? Perhaps you are arguing that the voting age should be raised to 30 or 40, since only history that you lived through as an adult is real?

But I don't mean to start anything personal; by all means vote conservative if you agree with their ideals, opinions, and goals. I fully support your right to do so and won't argue if you vote for someone I personally oppose if it is because of your own views and with good reason, logic and forethought. I am merely asking about statements that have been made.

I agree that all of the people involved in a race like this - Harper or Martin or whomever - are villified and scruitinized to an unrealistic degree by the media for its own purposes. I also agree with Blair that you can make a difference by not voting for a major contender if it will give another party the opportunity for public exposure (debates, appearances) if they will use that opportunity for a good cause. If only a tiny fraction of people who watch the news re-think a single issue based on what the Green Party says during a televised debate, then I think that is making a difference.

[liquid]

Re: Federal Election

The bad track record of the conservative party is in the past, but not so far in the past! This was the most recent conservative government, it is easy to make it seem like a long time but in terms of governments it is quite recent. Geologists would say that thousands of years are really nothing; I think in politics one or two government terms is not huge! Many of the very same people from the previous conservative government are still in the party now.

All I'm saying is that things in Politics sometimes take a while to filter out to the public. We have basically seen the outcome of the past Conservative Gov't, but we have not seen the final outcome of this Liberal Government; and may not for a few years. I think there are still a lot of skeletons in the closet for Martin and the Liberals; although only time will tell.

[Kor]

Re: Federal Election

All I'm saying is that things in Politics sometimes take a while to filter out to the public. We have basically seen the outcome of the past Conservative Gov't, but we have not seen the final outcome of this Liberal Government; and may not for a few years. I think there are still a lot of skeletons in the closet for Martin and the Liberals; although only time will tell.

I would agree with you, it is always possible we will find out more in the future. But I think this is all the more the reason to be careful about voting conservative. Alex argues "the enemy you know versus the enemy you don't"; but I think the conservative party is the one that has made more mistakes in the public eye. Certainly I do not think that the Chretien/Martin liberal governments did anything to compare with racking up our national debt!

I agree with almost all if not all policies and directions taken by this past government; it is only the execution that has been unsatisfactory.

I am willing to give another party a chance though. So, I would be very much persuaded if someone here were to list the 5 or 10 or 20 biggest issues/decisions/directions taken by this last government and then point out how the conservative party would have done them differently. Particularly if the conservative party has held those views previously and did so at the time of the decision (and not just in hindsight). Such an argument would be very compelling to me, I guess that is what it would take to change my view. Would the conservative party say "we would make every decision exactly the same, only with less corruption, and better execution"? If so, then they are basically the same party with different people. I think probably not. I would have to compare my own views to issues where the two partys would differ.

Anyway, if anyone wants to read a very Liberal article, it can be found at:

http://www.goodreads.ca/lectures/ignatieff/

[Aleks]

Re: Federal Election

Alright, who cares how anyone votes then....They're all screwed and corrupt, lets start a coup, and we can run it the way we want.......would that satisfy people? I will admit we haven't heard much new in terms of policy or standing on issues. I've stated I don't like the liberals because they as the current party and members cannot be trusted....that indicates to me its time to move on. I've stated I'm liberal in some things, conservative in others....Nobody is one thing. Debt, who cares about debt. We have relatively little debt for a country our size.

On another note, look at provinces who have been run "conservatively", we are relatively better off than others.

I am:
all for private health care
don't give a **** about gay marriage
in favor of supporting our closest neighbor (even though I don't agree with all of bush's policy), we need to support that relationship
all for lower taxes, any taxes, fuel taxes, whatever
increase our military presence, and morale

I do not:
think religion should play ANY part in politics (all parties guilty)
agree with equalization payments
support seperation
think a government that has demonstrated incompetence, criminal behaviour, mismanagement, and straight up dishonesty should be supported for another term.

Just a few simple examples, but you will never find a party that "swings the same way you do"......

[R_Ethug]

Re: Federal Election

i have mixed feelings about private health care.. as a young person i dont' care but as you get older you'll see differently
i do and dont' care about gay marriage.. i won't touch it with a 20ft pole you can ask me my feelings in person if you want or something
i agree we should get along with the US even tho bush is a moron
i agree with lowering property taxes, income taxes,etc
i actually do support separation but not quebec.. of AB,BC and sask. .then lets see how eastern canada does for money! but thats another topic for another day.

[Aleks]

Re: Federal Election

Think about eastern/western seperation like this Ryan, thats a large mass of land that we then have to ship products across to "Canada2". Thats all we need is more "international" type shipping problems, and all the products manufactured in Ontario/Quebec are then imported.

Saskatchewan should just be absorbed into Alberta anyhow, more open land, more places for exploration, I'm sure the tar sands just don't 'end' at the alberta/sask border! I certainly don't support seperation....Sure there's some morbid curiousity that says lets see what happens, but then I come back to reality....

[R_Ethug]

Re: Federal Election

oh yea i'm slightly joking it'll never happen so yea..

[Smartiepants]

Re: Federal Election

I try and stay out of political debates with people I do not know well. I believe it was here that I heard someone say that political views are like religion, it is very easy to offend someone greatly debating about it. That said, I hope I do not offend anyone.

Just a few points to throw out there:
GST lowering - I believe a tax on spending is a bad thing in concept, it should be encouraged to spend money, so this is a good thing. GST as far as I know is a relatively small portion of the total income
Gay marriage - I don't want to enter into this debate
Leaders - Martin is a good leader, sometimes lacks sway, but Harper does not have that either, Harper lacks the charisma but is a proven back room leader, has been involved in the party in an influential role for a long time.
The NDP - I am too right wing to support them, however Layton gets alot of respect for me, and even though ideologically opposed, he is my favorite politician.
The Green Party - although I agree with them on alot of points, they are quite fiscally right wing, it is a throwaway vote, and with the seeming large amounts of elections coming up, I wish they had not gotten enough votes to get the campaign grants, it will cost the country alot, and I do not think they will get a seat regardless.

My prediction, for the upcoming federal election is a larger Bloc, a slightly larger NDP, and a slightly larger conservative party. This will shift the power such that the Conservatives and the Bloc will be able to form a majority together, which I believe will lead to more power to the provinces, or a very short lived government.

BTW - I am a member of the conservative party if that matters. I believe in more individual freedoms. I believe that people need to be taken of, but the government has shown its inability to do this. Things such as reducing government social programs will cut costs and put more money in everyone's pockets. That said, I believe that it is our responsiblity as individuals to take care of those around us who need it. But ultimately my lack of faith in the governemnt wishes that it would allow us the freedom to choose how we deal with those issues on an individual basis.

Also, historically most governments do not get more than 4 terms. And it also tends to matter less since we have an interesting phenomenon that the provincial governments shift away from teh federeal govenrment in terms of ideology, which reflects the voters urge for balance.

[liquid]

Re: Federal Election

Good post Nick.

I agree that both Leaders (Harper & Martin) lack that real Charisma and Leadership ability that you tend to see with many politicians. With that said, I think the difference between the two lies in their "intestinal fortitude" If I can say that. I think Martin has dealt horribly with the US. Although I am NOT a fan of American foreign policy, I believe it is important for us to maintain good relations with our Southern Neighbour. Paul Martin has this tendancy to talk big, and then buckle like a cheap Lawn Chair.

It may also be a factor that Federal Conservative leadership may provide better representation of the Western Canadian mindset... and that is something I agree with with. If anyone has ever spent any time looking into the federal equialization payments; it's incredble.

[tintin]

Re: Federal Election

The Conservatives would be blown out of the water if they formed a government with a separatist party. It's the biggest contradiction possible in Canadian politics.

[Silverstoned]

Re: Federal Election

I'm curious why everyone feels that a vote for the Green party is a throw away vote. I feel that a new party, if it aligns closely with your personal views, should be voted for. In fact, as I recall from the last election, the green party beat out the NDP in many ridings within Calgary. Will they get a seat this election? Probably not. I do think if they get enough support this election however, that the next one may very well get them a seat.

Jeff

[Kor]

Re: Federal Election

If I had my way, there would be no voting! You'd all call me emperor.

[zilla]

Re: Federal Election

The conservatives have come a long way since Clark and Mulroney were running the show.

I lived in Ottawa for a LONNG time and, i guess because it's a political town, you had fairly good representation in the media of the left and right. Spending the last year in Vancouver, I've noticed that the majority of the media coverage is from the left-leaning CBC who immediately demonize anything conservative.

Hell, look at what happened during the last conservative leadership race when there was only a rumour that there was a rumour that Mike Harris was thinking about coming out of retirement to run for the federal conservative leadership.

I'd love to see Mike Harris running the show for the conservatives. We need the Common Sense Revolution, v2.0

[liquid]

Re: Federal Election

All this talk about voting for the Green Party still has me even more convinced that Canada needs to move to a system of proportional representation. As a side-note I'm not a supporter of the Green's. Proportional Representation would mitigate alot of the current problems, and provide a more real representation of the public vote. If proportional representation was in place, the Green Party would probably already have a seat.

Anyhow, that's enough of my ranting.

[Aleks]

Re: Federal Election

Mulroney looks like a godsend compared to this last bunch of bungling fools....