The war in Iraq - a question of support

[Golf Girl]

Hey there, I know its been awhile since I posted but I’ve been reading the boards and hopefully will see you soon! With Peter’s permission I am opening a thread about the war in Iraq with a link to a petition.

After spending the last few weeks watching the news and feeling that many people's views were not being heard - those people who wish to express support for the Coalition – I’ve created a petition that will be forwarded to The Right Honourable Jean Chretien.

We have the same basic beliefs as the U.S., we value democracy, family, freedom, and God - protecting those beliefs is our duty. We have a great nation and there are many ways we can show our support. We can fight and help in military AND non-military ways. For example; we could send volunteers to help counsel POW’s and the Iraqi people who have been hurt in the crossfire.

If you feel that you would like to express your support, please take a moment and sign the petition (link below) and please forward it to anyone else that may be interested. If you do not wish to sign it, then thank you in advance for reading this post and for your consideration.

http://www.PetitionOnline.com/IRQCDN03/petition.html

I know this is very controversial and there are strong points on every side of the discussion. Thank you for listening to my side

Jessica

[seanfournier]

In time I do believe that the Canadian Prime Minister will be shown a greater respect from Canadians for his decision to keep Canada neutral from this illegal war. It will be a hardship econmically and politically. The world is a big place and supporting an illegal war will more than likely have greater ramifications against us from the world community. Many Americans also do not support this invasion.

*I am neutral to politics and war. I do however realize what certain actions will cause, I'm just voicing them.

does anyone else think this is an illegal war? I love the name of this war "Operation Iraq Freedom". Like, who made the dual anglo-american world power (USA/UK) judge, jury, executioner as to how other countries should be run?

[liquid]

Although I tend to be a fence-sitter, I am somewhat of a supporter of this war. War is not the best solution in most situations, but in this instance I believe it is the only solution. Although Jean has taken the conservative route in this international conflict, unlike sean, I believe it will hurt Canadian international politics in the long run. We are an incredibly indecisive nation, and never really step out anywhere. I don't agree with alot of American foreign policy, however, at least the American government, and most of their people stand for something.... and have the willingness to fight for it.

Golf Girl- are you poltically involved, or a Poli-sci student?

[Golf Girl]

I'm graduating gr 12 in June then heading to the UofC to major in Psychology.

But I have a HUGE interest in politics and getting involved. I really think too many young people sit and let the world pass by in a blur. The problem is that its going to be our world soon and we will have to live with the consequences of the decisions that are being made now. If this petition gets people talking and sharing their opinions then I will be thrilled! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it everyone!

[Melinda]

That a girl, Jessie, this is a great idea. I signed your petition days ago but just lending my helping words here as well...

As a journalism student, we have studied the war in great detail. I have never belived that violence and guns solve anything (ask peter, he knows that one) but I think it's unbelievable that our prime minister won't support our neighbors to the south. As much as I hate Ralph Klein normally, I totally support him and his stand against the rest of Canada

Melinda

[Kor]

Please no one take this personally, its just a statement of my own beliefs... since someone else started the thread.

I am personally against the war in Iraq... I do strongly believe that Canada should stand by our allies (and we do have some troops, equipment and aid in the middle east). But I also think that we can set an example of peace, and that it is very important for us to stand by the UN as a world body. Even if we turned out to be "wrong" at least we can say it was because we love peace.

I agree that we do share a lot with the US. However, I think that each person values democracy, family, freedom, and religion in their own way. For some, the cost war is too high; others value non-violence and peace as much as or more than the values mentioned.

Disagreements will always arise between nations, and the UN isn't perfect, but people from many countries need to learn to get along somehow. Until something better comes along, I think that it is enough for Canada to show that we agree with the vision of a united earth. Its more important in the long run to learn patience and diplomacy, and in this particular case I think there was more room for both. It would not have been too late to go to war, but now its too late for peace.

In the end, Canada is not really needed for this war, nor is it something I think we are very qualified for (compared to the US). I am extremely pround of Canadians in the armed forces who participate in making the world a safer place. However, I do not think we need to call upon them to risk their lives unless it is as a last resort. If we harbour sympathies for the people in Iraq or are against the current Iraq regime, the best thing we can do is provide more non-violent aid and support when that country needs it most (such as in the days ahead).

Our government and our prime minister are not saying that we will not help the Iraqi people. My understanding is that we simply are not joining in the war part. I do not think I need to sign this pettition if I think think that Canada should be providing non-violent aid. I moreover disagree with the idea that we are hiding behind policies, excuses, or the UN just because we choose not to fight.

On a related note, I am sometimes disappointed in how the media handles war in general, and the war in Iraq specifically. I believe that the ways in which we are exposed to the war though our media do not prepare us adequately to form independant opinions, and that sometimes we are misled.


--
Kris

[Pat]

In my opinion this is not an illegal war in the least. Any country that has a dictator destroying human being for the sake of testing and fear is not a way to run a country. Usually, tellinga country what to do is not right, but this has become more of a human rights issue, these are human beings that are being destroyed mentally and physically to bloat the ego of one old ass.

Secondly, I understand that Canada cannot offer much in the way of military fighting. Because we have grown up to be a non-violent country who would look to the US in the event of an invasion or war, unfortunately we just bit that hand pretty hard.

This war is something that had to happen, I support it 100% for a variety of reasons, one being the livelihood of the masses in Iraq.

[Chris]

I have mixed feelings about this war.

One the one hand, I am disappointed in the Canadian government's decision not to lend full military support to the US. Don't get me wrong, I abhor violence, and especially war, but from an economic standpoint, what Jean Chretien has done to Canada is nothing short of economic castration.

On the other, I believe that Bush acted a little too hastily when he decided to wage war without the UN's support. His motives to do so seem almost personal, and it leaves me questioning whether or not he has alterior intentions.

These intentions may be his desire to play puppet master with the new government that is formed in Iraq once this war is done, or perhaps it is to gain control of the Middle East's oil reserves. Who knows.

One thing I am certain of is that this war was inevitable as long as Saddam Hussein remained in power, and all we can do now is hope it is ended swiftly and that no more innocent lives are lost.

C.

[seanfournier]

What if China invaded the USA saying something like

"you have too many guns and you're killing yourselves. your diets have caused a nation with the highest amount of obesiety. your country produces chemicals and toxins that are poluting and killings you and other people around the world. this is a human rights tragedy. your own government has no control over you and you're going to destroy yourselves unless we govern you."

So China invades the US, kills thousands and sets up a communist government to "better" the way of life for Americans. Guns are banned, greenhouse gases are eliminated, people begin living healthier. People actually have an increased quality of life.

Is this right? Or illegal? Who gave China the right to do that?

Get the illustration? Maybe in time my understanding with this conflict will change in this matter but for now, America only looks like its doing Iraq a favour through the CNN filter. Who knows, i guess in time the picture will become a little more clear.

One thing for sure. I hope its over soon so Canada can go and help with the rebuilding of that country for those poor people.

[liquid]

[quote]Originally posted by Kor:
Please no one take this personally, its just a statement of my own beliefs... since someone else started the thread.

I am personally against the war in Iraq... I do strongly believe that Canada should stand by our allies (and we do have some troops, equipment and aid in the middle east). But I also think that we can set an example of peace, and that it is very important for us to stand by the UN as a world body. Even if we turned out to be "wrong" at least we can say it was because we love peace.

I agree that we do share a lot with the US. However, I think that each person values democracy, family, freedom, and religion in their own way. For some, the cost war is too high; others value non-violence and peace as much as or more than the values mentioned.

Disagreements will always arise between nations, and the UN isn't perfect, but people from many countries need to learn to get along somehow. Until something better comes along, I think that it is enough for Canada to show that we agree with the vision of a united earth. Its more important in the long run to learn patience and diplomacy, and in this particular case I think there was more room for both. It would not have been too late to go to war, but now its too late for peace.

In the end, Canada is not really needed for this war, nor is it something I think we are very qualified for (compared to the US). I am extremely pround of Canadians in the armed forces who participate in making the world a safer place. However, I do not think we need to call upon them to risk their lives unless it is as a last resort. If we harbour sympathies for the people in Iraq or are against the current Iraq regime, the best thing we can do is provide more non-violent aid and support when that country needs it most (such as in the days ahead).

Our government and our prime minister are not saying that we will not help the Iraqi people. My understanding is that we simply are not joining in the war part. I do not think I need to sign this pettition if I think think that Canada should be providing non-violent aid. I moreover disagree with the idea that we are hiding behind policies, excuses, or the UN just because we choose not to fight.

On a related note, I am sometimes disappointed in how the media handles war in general, and the war in Iraq specifically. I believe that the ways in which we are exposed to the war though our media do not prepare us adequately to form independant opinions, and that sometimes we are misled.


--
Kris

---

I agree with alot of your points Kris, however, some of them lack a practical solution. We may "love peace", but we need to be able to protect that peace. It's a little idealistic to think of "peace" in that light. Although the U.N. and NATO are great in theory, they honestly lack alot of practical application. In essence, the U.N. is dominated by the U.S., and lacks the power to go about curbing the aggresions of larger nations.

The U.S. is obviously in this war for more than "Iraqi Freedom", yet, they are willing to put themselves behind this mission. Unlike Canada, where we stand indecisive and wait for others to act, while we act diplomatically... in essence doing nothing. Yes Canada should stand for peace, as we have in the past, but we also need to step up to the plate every so often.

As for your comments on media coverage... I honestly could not agree more. The media coverage we recieve here in the North America is filtered beyond all comprehension. It's honestly very difficult to come up with an honest opinion, when we rarely get the information in an unbiased state.

[Melinda]

[quote]Originally posted by liquid:

As for your comments on media coverage... I honestly could not agree more. The media coverage we recieve here in the North America is filtered beyond all comprehension. It's honestly very difficult to come up with an honest opinion, when we rarely get the information in an unbiased state.

---

Haha you guys have hit it right on the head of the nail. I have taken especially careful notice of the media coverage in this event (being a journalist in training) and I know the guidlines they are responsible for upholding.

Although this is a totally new thing for US media (never before have they been able to have embedded journalists in a war) they are going about this the wrong way completely. Their networks and newspapers only want the "the states is amazing, iraq sucks" kind of coverage.

Melinda

[Kor]

I told myself I would only post that one message in this thread, lest the debate become too heated. Nonetheless I am going to respectfully disagree with three points.

Firstly, Canada was not indecisive in the least. A decision on this issue was quickly made and publicized. We did not wait for others to act, in fact I think quite the opposite is true - we made our own choice instead of following the leader. It is a decision many Canadians wanted. It is simply not the decision you agree with.

Secondly, sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action. Certainly doing nothing is in iteself a choice, and does not mean that we are stalling or that we cannot make a decision. Just because one is doing something does not mean it is the right thing.

Thirdly, this war is in essence a 'first strike' military action. The publicly stated rationale is that it is in defence of peace and liberty; that we are somehow protecting ourselves or the world at large. I do not consider any case where a single party initiates aggression a 'defence'.

As an analogy, it is not fair for me to defend myself by going out and shooting ex-cons. Even if they own guns.

I will agree with you that because of politics the UN is not as effective as it could potentially be. However, there is some evidence to suggest that continued peaceful action through the UN would not have been entirely in vain. This may also seem idealistic, but why not be idealistic when we can afford to do so? Lets hope that after this war all nations can agree on improving the effectiveness of the United Nations.

[liquid]

[quote]Originally posted by Kor:

Secondly, sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action. Certainly doing nothing is in iteself a choice, and does not mean that we are stalling or that we cannot make a decision. Just because one is doing something does not mean it is the right thing.

Thirdly, this war is in essence a 'first strike' military action. The publicly stated rationale is that it is in defence of peace and liberty; that we are somehow protecting ourselves or the world at large. I do not consider any case where a single party initiates aggression a 'defence'.


I will agree with you that because of politics the UN is not as effective as it could potentially be. However, there is some evidence to suggest that continued peaceful action through the UN would not have been entirely in vain. This may also seem idealistic, but why not be idealistic when we can afford to do so? Lets hope that after this war all nations can agree on improving the effectiveness of the United Nations.

---

You make very good points Kor... and I hope you don't take my disagreement with you as personal.. it's just my opinion. I'll agree to disagree

Having done a few research topics on the U.N., and international military unity in the past, I've come to the personal conclusion that although within certain limits the U.N. can be effective, it has serious limitations. In the case of international aid and so-forth the U.N. has been quite impressive. Yet, when the "rubber hits the road", international treaties and co-operatives seem to hold little value. Nations, sometimes rightly so, look out for their own interests first.

In essence I guess you could say that although I tend to agree with this war, only to a certain extent, I don't agree with some of the factors behind it. Calling it "Operation Iraqi Freedom", is a little excessive to say the least....

In all honesty I admit that my opinion is seriously hindered by the fact that I, along with almost everyone else, know very little about the actual operation itself. My view is only what I'm fed through various media sources, and with speaking to others. It's difficult to maintain my opinion when its standing on a fairly shifty foundation.

-Colin-

[Melinda]

I have to say guys, this is quite the civilized debate, appologizing for disagreeing and what not...keep it up, it's AWESOME to see!

Mel

[Golf Girl]

WOW!!!! This is a great discussion! There are valid points on every side and its so refreshing to be able to hear them without the anger that usually goes with it. I agree 100% with the comments about the media. The news is supposed to be impartial fact but look at the difference between CBC and CNN when reporting the same event and you can see that its not.

I also agree that the US has multiple levels of motivation for this war but ultimately it will result in the removal of a man that has committed crimes against his own people that we can't imagine. He has also poisoned his own ecosystem with chemical testing - ppl rarely test things they don't intend to use. Maybe there was another way to remove him if the UN and Peace had more time but the US didn't wait, their history has taught them that waiting just costs more lives like WWII and Pearl Harbor.

Whether we agreed or disagreed with their decision this time, I feel it could have been handled better and with more respect for our closest ally and our strongest protector. My greatest wish right now is for a swift end to the conflict so that the whole world can start healing and be a little safer.

The ideas and opinions that everyone has been sharing are so important! Alot of points have been brought up that I hadn't thought of before. My opinion is the same as it was but I have a much better understanding of why people have many different opinions... THANK YOU!