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Re: Jetta vs SRT4... I lose.
Aha well I don't like to post it on here any more since everyone has their own opinions about products and cars... I would rather talk about it in person, you should talk to me at a meet or just grab some coffee. I won't get technical here...
But...
Starting with a chip is fine if your goals are modest and you just plan on a few mods such as an exhaust. In fact its great, you add 30+ horsepower for very little money. I have no regrets about mine! But you won't make serious power and will just need a new chip when you decide you want more. You will also realize that all your intake and half your exhaust mods are garbage if you want to go full turbo upgrade.
If you want to beat an SRT-4 in a Volkswagen you are going to need to make something like 275+ wheel HP (in my opinion) since the SRT-4 is also lighter and probably easier to launch too. This puts you clearly into the Stage III or custom setup categories.
To be honest, the best performance and best price will come from a custom setup. This means doing fabrication, sourcing individual components, and having it properly tuned. It means knowing how the engine works. It may SEEM like more money but to be honest the kits kind of "sneak up on you" anyway. The disadvantage to this is that it takes time, patience, knowledge, and expertise or experience. In the long run I plan to pick out my turbo, manifold, intercooler, and everything else I need piece by piece (looking for the best prices), then have the piping fabricated and everything dyno tested and tuned to work together. I think 300+whp is totally resonable for this route.
Back to the topic of the chip. If you plan on making serious power then the chip should be what you do LAST. Basically the chip is the tuning that is going to make your mods work together. The best chip tuning solution is going to be one that is custom designed to your fuel, boost and timing needs. Usually this will require some dyno time and/or logging using a VAG-COM and wideband. The APR Stage III kit probably has some of the best software but I still say there is no substitution for custom tuning and testing in this area.
The APR Stage III is one of the most complete (if not most complete) turbo kits. It should produce good power "out of the box". However, it is missing a lot of what you really should have or will need to make the kit and your car reach its potential. The price is also very steep for what you are getting. The turbo is worth less than a thousand dollars. If you have a huge budget this is defintiely the "best there is" in terms of kits though. The lesser kits are usually more like half of a custom solution and require after-purchase tuning and even fabrication anyhow.
Lets look at the hidden costs of this venture. $4499.00 US is more like $7500 Canadian. You will also need to pay to have it installed - and this won't be cheap. We're talking well over a grand. You will also NEED an exhaust (another grand) and intercooler (and another, or more) to get this kit up to some decent potential. You should buy a wideband sensor. And vag-com. Boost gauge. Boost control. Motor mounts. Then you need to buy the dyno and tuning time if you want it to run right (although the APR software may run well with their kit as is). How much do you think you're up to now? I bet $12,000 plus. Then you need a suspension. New tires. A clutch. These may seem like optional things, or components you can add down the road, but in reality you will find that you need them right away or that it is more cost effective to get them right away.
Anyhow, I have thought about this a lot, and am familiar with all of the kits, software, and parts out there... I have also talked with lots of guys who custom built their setups. So if you want to chat about upgrading the 1.8T just give me a yell.
Originally posted by Electrofuzz
But...
Starting with a chip is fine if your goals are modest and you just plan on a few mods such as an exhaust. In fact its great, you add 30+ horsepower for very little money. I have no regrets about mine! But you won't make serious power and will just need a new chip when you decide you want more. You will also realize that all your intake and half your exhaust mods are garbage if you want to go full turbo upgrade.
If you want to beat an SRT-4 in a Volkswagen you are going to need to make something like 275+ wheel HP (in my opinion) since the SRT-4 is also lighter and probably easier to launch too. This puts you clearly into the Stage III or custom setup categories.
To be honest, the best performance and best price will come from a custom setup. This means doing fabrication, sourcing individual components, and having it properly tuned. It means knowing how the engine works. It may SEEM like more money but to be honest the kits kind of "sneak up on you" anyway. The disadvantage to this is that it takes time, patience, knowledge, and expertise or experience. In the long run I plan to pick out my turbo, manifold, intercooler, and everything else I need piece by piece (looking for the best prices), then have the piping fabricated and everything dyno tested and tuned to work together. I think 300+whp is totally resonable for this route.
Back to the topic of the chip. If you plan on making serious power then the chip should be what you do LAST. Basically the chip is the tuning that is going to make your mods work together. The best chip tuning solution is going to be one that is custom designed to your fuel, boost and timing needs. Usually this will require some dyno time and/or logging using a VAG-COM and wideband. The APR Stage III kit probably has some of the best software but I still say there is no substitution for custom tuning and testing in this area.
The APR Stage III is one of the most complete (if not most complete) turbo kits. It should produce good power "out of the box". However, it is missing a lot of what you really should have or will need to make the kit and your car reach its potential. The price is also very steep for what you are getting. The turbo is worth less than a thousand dollars. If you have a huge budget this is defintiely the "best there is" in terms of kits though. The lesser kits are usually more like half of a custom solution and require after-purchase tuning and even fabrication anyhow.
Lets look at the hidden costs of this venture. $4499.00 US is more like $7500 Canadian. You will also need to pay to have it installed - and this won't be cheap. We're talking well over a grand. You will also NEED an exhaust (another grand) and intercooler (and another, or more) to get this kit up to some decent potential. You should buy a wideband sensor. And vag-com. Boost gauge. Boost control. Motor mounts. Then you need to buy the dyno and tuning time if you want it to run right (although the APR software may run well with their kit as is). How much do you think you're up to now? I bet $12,000 plus. Then you need a suspension. New tires. A clutch. These may seem like optional things, or components you can add down the road, but in reality you will find that you need them right away or that it is more cost effective to get them right away.
Anyhow, I have thought about this a lot, and am familiar with all of the kits, software, and parts out there... I have also talked with lots of guys who custom built their setups. So if you want to chat about upgrading the 1.8T just give me a yell.
On second thought scratch that thought. All I'd be doing is adding credibility to the SRT-4 owners delusions of speed and grandeur.
If it's smoken it ain't broken
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