God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

[J-hop]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

PS. i saw another gem on the weekend. there is a billboard that says "25% of all fatal crashes involve speed. PLEASE SLOW DOWN" its on mcleod i believe.


so hang on.....you idiots are telling me speed ISN'T the biggest factor in fatal crashes? so why the f@ck are you only targeting it?

idiots.....

you are misinterpreting it.... say you have 10 marbles, 4 blue, 1 orange, 2 red, 2 green and 1 black.

Blue only constitutes 40% of the total marbles but in this case is the largest contributor to the overall total.

Now think of car accidents, speed may only account for 25% of the overall contribution to fatal accidents but when you factor in the hundreds of other factors taken into consideration when analyzing crashes, that 25% becomes a huge percentage relative to the other factors.

But really in the end it can't be a cash cow, because you are knowingly giving the city your money, not trying to sound preachy but if you are knowingly breaking the law how is someone catching you in the act a cash cow?????

I personally think these green cams are a great idea, obviously at higher speeds you have less time to react and longer stopping distances, then when you think about where accidents occur the most, which is intersections, decreasing the speed at which people are going through them will increase safety and obviously it is working because calgary is not on the cutting edge when it comes to transportation infrastructure and we aren't a random test site for these programs so obviously programs like these have produced positive results elsewhere and we are following suit

And also this is based on research and tests done by people way more qualified in the field than likely anyone on here is...

[Wildfire]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

I think it is partially a cash cow. Im not in favour of speed on green.
Lets say if a driver is speeding and is not aware of the camera. If he does not react in time, he will perhaps cause a crash, perhaps kill himself and a innocent driver. Not only that he will get a ticket in the mail. What good is speed on green then?
If you have the speed on green, then all your going to have is drivers slowing down for the camera and then hitting it once they have passed.

If the main goal is to reduce accidents and fatalities then there is another way that is cheaper. One solution would be to have the traffic lights hold on Amber for a little longer. It allows drivers at the speed limit (and those just above and more) to react better.
Why was research not done on this? Think about it, its about money and the police can always fall on the argument people should not speed. But it does not really address the problem.

People speed, and people will speed. I think the solution should be with the problem and not against it.

[The dude]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

obviously it is working because calgary is not on the cutting edge when it comes to transportation infrastructure and we aren't a random test site for these programs so obviously programs like these have produced positive results elsewhere and we are following suit

And also think this is based on research and tests done by people way more qualified in the field they likely anyone on here is...

It's kind of funny you say that since there have been numerous studies that have found that implementing automated ticketing has actually increased the rate of fatal accidents and accidents causing injury. The real appeal of these technologies is that they are cheaper than having police officers doing what the machines can do. Unfortunately automated traffic enforcement has yet to be proved to significantly reduce speeding/red light running in comparison to direct traffic enforcement with real police officers.

Because the RCMP doesn't operate photo radar trucks the cities without their own police force hire out the ticketing to private photo radar companies who get a cut of every ticket that it issued. Which has always seemed a little fishy to me since it is in the private companies best interest to keep you speeding since it is their bread and butter. Which would explain why they seem to be getting trickier with their setups. I remember when you could see the big flash mounted on the front of the radar vans and now they have everything contained in brand new trucks, shooting out the side window or the back window. Recently I saw a camera mounted in the back of a cube van. These companies are highly profitable and want to stay that way so it would explain why they set up in locations where they are more likely to optimize the amount of cars they catch like the bottom of hills and where the speed limit drastically decreases on through roads coming off the highway. Some studies have concluded that accidents have actually increased since there is less direct traffic policing since the implementation of automated ticketing.

Red-Light Cameras Fail to reduce Accidents
In 2005 the Washington Post found: the number of crashes at locations with cameras more than doubled. Injury and fatal crashes climbed 81%, Broadside crashes, also known as right-angle or T-bone collisions, rose 30%.

Winnipeg, Manitoba
Audit reveals a 58% increase in collisions and a 113% increase in damage
claims at the highest level

Virginia Department of Transportation study shows accidents increased by
nearly a third where red light cameras were used.

Grande Prairie, Alberta
Intersections equipped with red light cameras reported an increase in injury collisions by 126%


Because automated ticketing is so profitable the private companies that operate these machines lobby the government and doctor statistics to ensure that their business has a long healthy future. In Italy there was a scandal because a private company was enlisted to operate all the red light cameras and what they had done was shorten the yellow light interval so that they could catch more people. This is the problem when you hire private companies to "protect" the public by enforcing traffic laws with cameras. They aren't in it to slow people down in school zones or in high collision zones, they're in it to make money .. and as long as the city is getting a good revenue from it they aren't going to be getting rid of these any time soon.

sorry if this was a little all over the place ... but they need to come up with some new ideas to slow people down

[J-hop]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

well at least we agree on something, the city needs to be taking action to slow down speeders, I would be interested to see where these statistics are being pulled from, a lot of research is actually being done at the U of C into these traffic cams etc right now but I Haven't had time to read any of their findings.

I duno I just get really baffled when people complain saying it is a cash cow when they are consciously doing it to themselves, I mean I'm not saying I never speed, but I generally stay within the limits and the two photo radars I did get in my 8 years of driving (both were less than 15km/hr over) I understood that it was my own doing, paid the ticket without complaint and took it as a lesson learned

[The dude]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

I guess what it comes down to is that automated ticketing isn't a replacement for having real live traffic enforcers on the road. I know the common answer for that is that people would rather have the officers out catching "real" criminals, but photo radar doesn't catch drunk drivers or dangerous drivers ... it only tickets them if they're speeding. So they can pay the fine and go out and do it again.

I've also had a ticket, but it was given to me by a real police officer and it made me think twice about speeding on the highway .. getting a photo radar ticket would just piss me off. There is something to getting pulled over and having to deal with a real person when you've done something wrong that makes it stick with you.

[JRP]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

There is something to getting pulled over and having to deal with a real person when you've done something wrong that makes it stick with you.

Watching a uniform and sunglasses approaching from your drivers side mirror alaways leaves an impression...


Funny story...I have an F250 that got stolen summer before last...the truck is NOT very discrete. It was recovered about a week later after some crackhead tried to set an F250 world ditch jumping distance record. Shortly after recovery, I received about 6 red light tickets AND a visit from CPS asking why didn't I pay for the gas before driving off...the turds apparently thought it was funny to blow through the cams at twice the speed limit...I had to explain my way out of each ticket as well as the theft...bonus though, the cops left all 5 pot and crack pipes because they "thought I would like my property back"...twaughts...

[bonfire]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

Cash cow.

Just too busy flying the heli around at night, busting homeless guys camping in parks to pay for officers to do their job.

[RONDAL]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

you are misinterpreting it.... say you have 10 marbles, 4 blue, 1 orange, 2 red, 2 green and 1 black.

Blue only constitutes 40% of the total marbles but in this case is the largest contributor to the overall total.

Now think of car accidents, speed may only account for 25% of the overall contribution to fatal accidents but when you factor in the hundreds of other factors taken into consideration when analyzing crashes, that 25% becomes a huge percentage relative to the other factors.

But really in the end it can't be a cash cow, because you are knowingly giving the city your money, not trying to sound preachy but if you are knowingly breaking the law how is someone catching you in the act a cash cow?????

I personally think these green cams are a great idea, obviously at higher speeds you have less time to react and longer stopping distances, then when you think about where accidents occur the most, which is intersections, decreasing the speed at which people are going through them will increase safety and obviously it is working because calgary is not on the cutting edge when it comes to transportation infrastructure and we aren't a random test site for these programs so obviously programs like these have produced positive results elsewhere and we are following suit

And also this is based on research and tests done by people way more qualified in the field than likely anyone on here is...

i know how stats work thanks.
4 years of econometrics i think a little of it rubbed off on me.


THAT SAID.
i KNOW speeding isn't the biggest factor when causing fatal accidents because i've seen the stats from other agencies. driver distractions is usually much higher, as are a few others.
But cops dont go after that, sh!t, our province wont even pass the god damn distracted driver law.
The cops, and province villify speeders like they just gang raped a child, portraying anyone that speeds as a street racer, instead of dealing with the real problem: we're using 1970's speed limits designed for 1970's cars on the roads of 2010.

And before someone jumps down my throat and says "well reaction times haven't changed since 1970", i completely agree.....but our driver standards haven't either, and thats why we have retards on the road. Thats a fairly easy one to nip in the bud right away, but yet the province does nothing about it.

[J-hop]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

yea true they should introduce a distracted drivers law IMO, but enforcement of it I think could become a huge issue. Speed is however something that can be enforced very easily, there are no real gray areas, either your speeding or your not.

I was thinking about it and I have a feeling 20 years from now there will be speed cams on every block of major roads and people are going to look back on us the way we look back on people that drove without seat-belts. I think a good way to accomplish the goal of reducing driver speed could be to make it unaffordable to speed, might even encourage people to take public transit haha.

[Khyron]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

Because there are no demerits, the rich can speed all they want while the poor suffer a much more dramatic hardship. This is unequal punishment and applies to all the stupid high fines lately (500$ littering, 500 crosswalk, etc)

[Mister T]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

PS. i saw another gem on the weekend. there is a billboard that says "25% of all fatal crashes involve speed. PLEASE SLOW DOWN" its on mcleod i believe.


so hang on.....you idiots are telling me speed ISN'T the biggest factor in fatal crashes? so why the f@ck are you only targeting it?

idiots.....

Totally agree, I think someone should post a big billboard under it saying "that means that 75% of fatal accidents have nothing to do with speeding"

Also, what I want to know is this: Why aren't cops doing anything about tailgaters? I would say that 4 out of 5 accidents I see are rear enders. Unless someone cuts in front of you and slams on the brakes, this only leaves one other way that it could happen. SO STOP FOLLOWING SO FU*KING CLOSE PEOPLE!!! (sorry for the caps, just needed to get that off my chest I guess)

With that little tidbit in mind, if the city is really bent on reducing collisions, use the cop's in dash cam to film and ticket people following too close. But why doesn't that happen? Because speeding tickets are a way better source of revenue because you can put out multinova vans and automated speed ticket cameras. You know what this means City Hall?......

[Snowcatxx87]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

Look up PDLC Film, it'll solve your problem.

[canuck699]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

http://www.leftlanenews.com/study-fi...accidents.html

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

You guys do forget that without these 'methods' we would probably all face more tax increases, so go slow around the speed cameras and then laugh at other people who get caught and pay extra taxes for you

[Wildfire]

Re: God Damn Green Light Cameras....grrr

Because there are no demerits, the rich can speed all they want while the poor suffer a much more dramatic hardship. This is unequal punishment and applies to all the stupid high fines lately (500$ littering, 500 crosswalk, etc)

Going slightly off topic....there is a Scandinavian country (Norway or Sweden) that has the fine set according to your income....The more more you earn the more your fine...