Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

[RONDAL]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

i cant wait for the day we start getting some decent small good economy cars here. its a joke what we have to choose from at the moment

[RONDAL]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

Interesting. The problem being is that you can't compare the EU to NA.

We are just to different. You are simply not going to convince a very large chunk of the market to buy small.

What will happen instead is people will just begin to fix up their old ****. Suddenly a huge spike in the number of 1970 pick-ups will be on the road. Because they won't be able to afford this outrageous tax on vehicles that they might need and have had forever.

The amount of CO2 that a car produces compared to the damage done by Methane from cows is laughable.

you can convince people to buy small....its not like its been big FOREVER. we just have the wrong mentality about cars here and have never had to pay the full price. fuel is subsidized, cars are subsidized, hell even licenses are subsidized.
people think driving is a right, not a priviledge.

you make people start paying an arm and a leg to drive big cars they will switch. just look at how much has happend in the last 3 years since oil crested $100.

you never had the fit, or any of the small chevy whatever they are rolling around.

[Wildfire]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

Interesting. The problem being is that you can't compare the EU to NA.

We are just to different. You are simply not going to convince a very large chunk of the market to buy small.

What will happen instead is people will just begin to fix up their old ****. Suddenly a huge spike in the number of 1970 pick-ups will be on the road. Because they won't be able to afford this outrageous tax on vehicles that they might need and have had forever.

The amount of CO2 that a car produces compared to the damage done by Methane from cows is laughable.

Interesting debate.
Unfortunately I have to disagree partially with the argument that Europe and North America are too different. The difference is cost of fuel and attitudes. When it comes to fuel efficiency cars there seems to be a consensus to show dinky cars like the Yaris, Smart Car, or electric Hybrids.
You may not be able to convince people to buy small. But for those segment of the market who choose to buy fuel efficient vehicles. What (good) choices are there?

When I moved here I needed to buy a car. My brother in law told me to buy his 3.5 litre Maxima. Now considering the average speed limit in Calgary is about 30-40mph (50-60km). Its a waste of fuel in my opinion (but then again he has a Murcielago and a Bentley, so I don't think he needs concerned about fuel efficiency!).
I had a Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec back home. If I had a choice I would have that vehicle over my current car here any day (04 Golf GTI 1.8T). Its better built, better interior, better drive and handling. Its reliable as well and as its a Ford, parts are cheap. Its good on fuel as well. I went to a ford dealer here and looked at a Focus. I was offered a only 2.5 liter engine (Ford have changed this to a 2.0 now). Im sorry to say this but the interior was a joke. The center console was wobbly and so was the glove compartment. My toilet seat is made from better plastics than those used in the interior of the Focus here. Not only this but everyone told me to stay away from Ford here as they are unreliable. Ford produced a car that is better than a VW (in my humble opinion) why cant they do it on this side?

On the other end of the scare you have cars like the Toyota Yaris. One liter engines, great on Fuel, cheap interior plastics. Does not really suit my image. But back home my ex girlfriend had a one liter WV Polo (you can get engines in 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 and Diesels). Interior was great, car looked good. You can mod them up very nicely (lots of space in the back seat too!). But I cant buy one here.
I went to a VW dealership and I was offered a 2.5 liter Rabbit. I don't earn very much and I have to ask what am I going to do with a 2.5 liter engine. With Calgary speed limits being so low? Why cant I buy a 2.0 or 1.8 (or even a 1.6) like I can do back home? Im not knocking Calgary, but a lot people I know back home have these cars and they run fine with smaller engines.
I'd be happy with a WV Polo GTI. Im just going to be zooming to work and back (the odd trip to BC and Edmonton). I asked the VW dealers why, and they could not give me an answer.
I can buy a 2.0 liter Rav 4 (good truck, by I don't want a 4x4 yet) or a Maza. But they are Japanese cars and don't get me started on them.

As for trucks and commercial vehicles. Well more of the vehicles run on Petroleum here. Back home (UK) petrol is so expensive that its not commercial viable to run a vehicle on petrol. Most commercial vehicles are diesel. Look at the transit vans used in Europe. I know some of Fords Trucks here are Diesel but what about everyone else? But I do suppose it depends on what you use your vehicle for. From a business stand point why would you run a vehicle to transport goods when another (perhaps) can do the same job get you better millage for fuel? From a business perspective, your interested in getting the job done and making money. Would the people who are fixing up 70's pickup trucks still drive them if they can have a vehicle that can do the same job for better millage? Ok one can get melodramatic and boast about the V8 and V6's (and walk like John Wayne). But when you have a wife, kids and a mortgage to pay...money matters. But in saying that, Petrol (or gas as its called here!) is cheap.

There is a big gap in the market and I don't think the big auto makers are doing a good job in filling that. Thats why I think Obama is coming down with the 35mpg. It will be interesting to see how this will work out.
(Ryan, I don't think it will kill of some of the funs cars. Several years ago I saw a 1.6 WV Polo GTI out do a BMW!) I am interested to here what other people think on this forum. Thoughts....?

[Khyron]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

what about imperial vs US gallon.. i'm confused there now

i think the ratings are imperial

FWIW i drive my S4 98.5% highway
it really never sees stop/go

It's complicated. There's 3 US ratings.

There's the original CAFE standard, which is set by the US gov with really simple old tests from back in the 70s (??). That's what the car makers follow. That's what Obama is changing. It's been due for decades but it would have hurt truck sales so they kept putting it off.

Then there's the old EPA numbers which is what gets put on the sticker. Those were pretty simple too, and really gave wonky results with hybrids and diesels. So in 2004 or so they changed the tests to be harsher/more realistic, like running with AC on all the time, and using much more variable speeds. These new stickers are much closer to what real people actually get.

Then the Canadian dealers got sneaky and said, well since all the stupid Canadians watch US tv, they all think in MPG. So WE will use MPG as well except we'll use imperial gallons as a marketing trick, even though OUR stickers are all in L/100kms. It's retarded and I think the practice should be banned.

So in the US look at mpg, in Canada look at L/100kms, they match for the most part.

2004 manual S4 is rated at 13 city, 20 highway (US Mpg)

[Duby T]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

I had a Ford Focus 1.8 Zetec back home. If I had a choice I would have that vehicle over my current car here any day (04 Golf GTI 1.8T). Its better built, better interior, better drive and handling. Its reliable as well and as its a Ford, parts are cheap. Its good on fuel as well. I went to a ford dealer here and looked at a Focus. I was offered a only 2.5 liter engine (Ford have changed this to a 2.0 now). Im sorry to say this but the interior was a joke. The center console was wobbly and so was the glove compartment. My toilet seat is made from better plastics than those used in the interior of the Focus here. Not only this but everyone told me to stay away from Ford here as they are unreliable. Ford produced a car that is better than a VW (in my humble opinion) why cant they do it on this side?

I find this very interesting.

How much does a 1.8 Zetec Ford Focus cost brand new in Europe?

If the price is comparable to what a NA Focus costs, why wouldn't they offer such a superior vehicle in North America?

[Duby T]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

On a different note, has anyone watch the documentary, who killed the electric car?

Makes me wonder if GM could have avoided its financial problems had it stuck with the EV1.

[Wildfire]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

I find this very interesting.

How much does a 1.8 Zetec Ford Focus cost brand new in Europe?

If the price is comparable to what a NA Focus costs, why wouldn't they offer such a superior vehicle in North America?

On the Ford.co.uk website, base price is 13,995 pounds, with conversion its about $25,000. You prob want the Zetec which works out to (directly converting the currency) $29,970. But bearing in mind regional variation (Materials and Labour costs), cars (and everything else!) are more expensive there. I would not entirely go by that number to compare.

A few months back I was talking to a few expats about this. We put it down to the Unions here. I know in the late 1970's and early 1980's the government got rid of a lot of unions (in the UK). I think that was a key factor. What your seeing in the states (with GM etc) is what happened to the British car industry twenty five years ago.

[Kordain]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

got to back wildfire on what hes saying here being an 6 year expat myself hes spot on. I was a little stunned at the big engines for little reason when i came out.

But i soon acclimatized...

[RONDAL]

Re: Obama - overall fuel economy to 35.5 miles per gallon by 2016

they are big engines, but they dont produce nearly as much power as you think they would.