Another election......are you serious?

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

When the vote gave only 33% to Harper and his Conservatives I think that is hard to say that is what Canada wanted.

I think blaming this for the problems on the TSX is a gross over simplification, I am not saying it is not contributing, but Oil/energy prices, earnings reports, sales numbers and irrational dumping of stocks are a few other factors as well.

If you read the CFCN comment blogs its all about Alberta separatism now, that's a horrible attitude to have and the local media is just feeding it.

[nordex]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

I thought it was like 38% to harper and 26% to Dion? Dion lost like 25 seats. Harper gained like 19.

Having an unstable political backing of the economy is showing to be the last straw in my opinion, although its no where near the only reason, political uncertainty appears to be playing a very large part.

I guess we shall see what harper has to say tongiht

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Sorry yes 37.65% of the vote and 26.6% for Liberals.

I am interested to see what he says and whether he has met with the GG before this speech too.

[nordex]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Does anyone know what the Coalition Government is going to do to "fix" the economy?

[snipa_mini85]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Sorry yes 37.65% of the vote and 26.6% for Liberals.

I am interested to see what he says and whether he has met with the GG before this speech too.

Is the GG back in Ottawa? Last I heard she was cutting her trip short and flying back Saturday? I could very well be misinformed though.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Does anyone know what either Government is going to do to "fix" the economy?

Fixed

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Is the GG back in Ottawa? Last I heard she was cutting her trip short and flying back Saturday? I could very well be misinformed though.

I believe she is back now, she left yesterday, so it is possible Harper could mention something about the Prorogue in his speech tonight if he has met with her.

[Kor]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Agree with Blair on a lot of points on this one.

"Canadians don't want this", "Canadians are annoyed" or "Canadians didn't elect Dion". Canadians elected every single person who sits in the house, period. Canadians did NOT support a majority conservative government, and Canadians did NOT tell the conservative party to f$ck up.

What pisses me off are people who complain without understanding what a non-confidence vote is, means, or why we have that in our government. This is important, people. It HAS to happen.

It is *critical* that if the party in power loses the confidence of the house that represents the people (the representation of the majority) that action be taken.

It is the responsibility of the party in power, especially a minority government, to not lose the confidence of the government. Basically, don't do stupid ****, there are consequences. This is a democracy not a dictatorship. This is an action OF the people and their representatives; it is an action OF the majority NOT AGAINST the majority.

This is the conservative's fault, and Harper's. Blame does not rest on the opposition parties, or their leaders such as Dion. Absolutely at any time in history, the opposition would ally with other parties in a non-confidence vote if the party in power was trying to push through action that was untenable. This is not because they are power hungry or because they are throwing a coup or whatever. It is their responsibility to the people who elected them.

If the tables were turned and the conservatives had to align with the bloc on a motion that a minority liberal government was trying to force through without the confidence of the house, I would ABSOLUTELY expect the conservatives and the bloc to vote together. And they would and they would be patriots for doing it and upholding democracy in Canada.

After such a vote, the choice is election or temporary alliance.

Generally I would prefer an election too! However as mentioned we just had one AND elections are expensive AND we are in an economic crisis. A temporary alliance is not so outlandish to get us through this crisis time without an election. We can call an election later, in a year or whenever especially if tensions rise in the coalition government over time, there is bound to be an election called as leadership changes or if there are differences in other matters of confidence. Make no mistake this is a temporary alliance and everyone knows it, conservatives, liberals, ndp and bloc. It is an option only, versus a long costly chaotic election.

Most people seem to FEAR what the coalition government would do. This is just paranoia. They will not be forcing the will of minority opinion on you. You will not be living under liberal whim or bloc quebecois decree. As Blair pointed out this alliance would not allow any party a veto or give undue power to those parties on regular matters. They would continue to vote with their conscience except on matters of confidence where they would have consensus.

If you are going to debate these points at least KNOW what we are talking about with a vote of non-confidence and understand that it is an essential part of our government in Canada. The only thing you can possibly argue is the choice between an election and a coalition.

If you believe an election is preferable at the present time, thats fine I am willing to hear your arguments. But don't tell me that we should just let the party in power do what they want outside of our government process and do not blame the liberals or bloc or NDP and their nefarious and evil agendas as if they are throwing a coup when the chips are down (they're not).

Do you know how other countries have changed their government to get around votes of non-confidence in multi-party systems? They concentrate power in an individual, like the president. Do you want a president of Canada with veto authorities and a dictator like power to decide an issue even if 60% or more of the ELECTED representatives of Canada disagree (as in this case)?

[Duby T]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Fixed

So true!

[RSS]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

O where to begin where to begin.

Everybody on one side is afraid of what Harper's agenda is and the other side is afraid of what the Bloc's agenda is. It's selfish for both sides so saying one side is afraid of the bloc D liberal P and should get over it is silly wouldn't both sides have to stop crying not just the opposing side to yours.

Did Harper end this himself i would say about 50/50 on that as he is doing the correct thing about the economy which is tightening his budget down reduce spending on unnecessary things. Sadly one of the unnecessary things was money for the opposition so it was pretty much was akin to kicking them in the nuts. Which made them angry understandably then he took it back and they where still angry so they decided to over throw the gov't which is where i tend to disagree with the its all Harper's fault idea. If they don't like the budget that is okay if all the oppositions is against it that is fine too but when they all decided to get together and become then new gov't without a vote from the people i tend to disagree. Not disagreeing with its legality which it seems to be perfectly legal but with the motivation behind it and the over all way its going to get done. If they want to vote against and send us to the polls that's fine but when they decided they where going to vote against it just to get into power that i have a problem with.

Cost of an election 300Milion
Cost of no election 0.00
Cost of new gov't with no election at least 30Billion

ummm I am going to lead towards no election and maybe they should talk it out instead of wasting our time and money.

The Americans have shown us throwing lumps of money on a fire doesn't put it out it smothers it for a little bit and then its seems to burn a little more with the added fuel. So throwing our small wad of cash at it isn't going to turn the world around its just going to give us another week or two of denial that things are still bad.

I like the analogy of when times are getting tough for you at home are you going to reduce your spending maybe try to get some more work or borrow a bunch of money hoping it will get you thru the rough patch and on the other side things will be going so well that you can pay back the large sum your borrowed.

And i am a little tired of the 60% of Canada didn't vote for the Conservatives they voted for the other party's well true that they didn't but they sure as hell didn't voted for a joined Bloc D liberal Party. If they think they can get that same amount as a unified party in an election then lets go to the polls and see. I will gladly give them my tax money to waste when they win as a single party.

I had more ramblings but i already forgot so its time to head home for the day and watch the country implode on the news.

[popp]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Here is a perfect representation of what Canadians are feeling right now

[nordex]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

If the coalition does happen, who is going to be the next PM as in May, Dion is out of here? Just enough time to completely screw everything up and leave it for someone else to deal with....

[Kor]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

then he took it back and they where still angry so they decided to over throw the gov't ... If they don't like the budget that is okay if all the oppositions is against it that is fine too but when they all decided to get together and become then new gov't without a vote from the people i tend to disagree.

Sorry to be anal, but... This is absolutely not what happened, and again as per my post above, shows that you do not really understand the concept or necessity of a motion of non confidence in our government. Nobody decided to overthrow a government and I highly doubt they were voting "just to get that power". The majority of the house voted to show that they do not agree, and they had GOOD reason to disagree. After that, there is no "taking it back" by the party in power. It is not "okay" if the majority of the house disagrees - something needs to happen next. Otherwise the party in power would continue to propose unreasonable action over and over. This is not just what is legal, it is how our democracy works. It is a check on the government that keeps them from being more like a dictatorship that can do whatever they want. The consequence of such an event is that the governor general, under law, calls an election or grants the opposition parties governance.

Right now, the gov. general has not made any decision, and that decision is made exclusively by the gov. general according to what that person thinks is best. She can call an election tomorrow.

Do you think then that the opposition parties should just SIT BY and let a minority government with < 40% votes do ANYTHING they want, without any check or balance? No. Of course not. Their job is to vote, and vote they did. You seem to be proposing that, in the case where a vote will likely result in non-confidence, the parties should just "roll over"?

Absolutely I can see where you are coming from about wanting it to go to an election. But that will really cost us. Maybe delaying it is a better choice and seeing if the Liberals get a new leader. I believe that it is very likely that another election will get called either way - maybe a year from now if the coalition govt solution is chosen.

Last thing, people should realize that in their country you do not elect a leader and you do not elect a party, you elect a representative. Those representatives are free after being elected to vote according to party lines or not, or to vote with other parties. Its part of the system. If you would prefer a 2 party system you are in the wrong country.

[RSS]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Sorry to be anal, but... This is absolutely not what happened, and again as per my post above, shows that you do not really understand the concept or necessity of a motion of non confidence in our government. Nobody decided to overthrow a government and I highly doubt they were voting "just to get that power". The majority of the house voted to show that they do not agree, and they had GOOD reason to disagree. After that, there is no "taking it back" by the party in power. It is not "okay" if the majority of the house disagrees - something needs to happen next. Otherwise the party in power would continue to propose unreasonable action over and over. This is not just what is legal, it is how our democracy works. It is a check on the government that keeps them from being more like a dictatorship that can do whatever they want. The consequence of such an event is that the governor general, under law, calls an election or grants the opposition parties governance.

Your right i am an idiot i don't understand the fact that budgetary items are a confidence matter for the house and they have to have a majority to pass kinda like majority rules democracy and all that crazy difficult to understand stuff.(Sarcasm in case you didn't understand what I was going for)

But the correct way to handle it would have been for the other parties to tell the Conservatives that such and such parts of the budget where unacceptable to them and that budget would be defeated if it remained that way which they kind of did but there next step would have been to propose options of making it acceptable to everyone / the majority they could have gone back and forth a couple times adding subtracting things you know working on the matter. But they instantly went to we are going to become the new gov't and still after the Conservatives removed two major parts of the budget that the other parties said where the problem they continue to plan on becoming the new gov't with no election (which of course is really up to the GG but I am pretty sure the Bloc D Liberals knew she wouldn't call an election so soon after the last)

Which leads us to what we are currently in which is election propaganda mode that isn't going to help anyone. Stupid videos by both leaders leading to tensions east vs west Quebec vs everyone etc etc and random people bickering on the internet about things that we weren't even there for and actually have no idea what transpired. But this is the internet and we will bicker until the end instead of agreeing that all politicians are useless and they should get back to work trying to fix our country instead of breaking it.

O forgot one thing i would rather a no party system you know elected officials doing what the constituents want not what there party feels like any party system ruins any chance of democracy.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: Another election......are you serious?

Looks like the GG has agreed to prorogue Parliament so I guess we have almost 2 months on uncertainty and Harper trying to dig himself out of his hole.

Personally I think this instability is worse for us then moving forward with the coalition but I guess we have to see what happens between now and late January.