Tasers...

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Of course one person isn't going to completely convert the other and have happy times. But many contrary opinions at least make me consider my own, and perhaps mine do the same. That's how you try and be useful member of society - talking about environment, politics, crime, whatever. Be informed.

There is no black and white, it's all shades of gray.

Oh and back on topic - with regards to him being considered "nuts" I haven't really seen anyone that disagrees with that assertion. Some EMTs have speculated that he might have been having a diabetic attack (10 hours no food/water, overweight) which has symtoms of appearing drunk/crazy. Others say he appeared delusional.

But he was definately engaging in destruction of property and threatening people; not acceptable behavior, even if you are from Europe.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

This is one of my problems with your arguments - a taser and pepper spray are in the same class. If you told a cop that he had to be tasered or pepper sprayed, most would probably take the taser. A taser is 50K volts. A stun guns sold in the US go up to 750,000 volts. And they're not lethal (except the odd case, but if you pepper sprayed someone who was deathly allergic to pepper you could have the same objection).

Pepper spray is better for multiple people, but it lasts a lot longer and it also runs a risk of hitting other officers. It's also easier to miss completely. Plus there's even the oddballs that it doesn't affect at all. One aquaintance officer said he'd had it a few times and it barely bothered him. But he also had a phobia of electricity and wouldn't get certified on the taser so go figure.

Also the cloud doesn't just vanish indoors - using it in a room about to be flooded with 300 people would have been dumb.

Watch Jackass where Knoxville gets shot in the abs with the beanbag gun and imagine what would have happened if he'd been hit in the throat. Rubber bullets, the beanbag shotgun - they all have a slight risk of injury or death. EVERYTHING has slight risk of injury or death. You want 100% absolute guarantees of safety, there are none. You can help your odds by not throwing chairs in an airport, not suddenly turning away from cops trying to talk to you, and not resisting them when they try and put the cuffs on.

Pepper spray does not run the same risks. I would guess it is used more often i.e. riots etc. Sure people could have an allergic reaction and die, have six died in the last 5 weeks from this form of control?

They decided to use a Taser, and it appears it was not used correctly. It has been stated that it can be deadly to use a taser and then instantly jump on the taser'd person.

They made a poor judgement, the police said they didn't use pepper spray because people were around, however this would have been an ideal time to use pepper spray given the fact they were secluded and the people that were near were on the other side of a glass wall.

Anyhow, i'll continue this discussion when the reports come out.

Also, to be clear, I do not disagree that police should equipped with tasers as it provides a step before the gun and I'm sure has protected police in the past and maybe even saved lives given they didn't have to use a gun however, had a taser not been available I doubt they would have pulled a gun...

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

Of course one person isn't going to completely convert the other and have happy times. But many contrary opinions at least make me consider my own, and perhaps mine do the same. That's how you try and be useful member of society - talking about environment, politics, crime, whatever. Be informed.

There is no black and white, it's all shades of gray.

Oh and back on topic - with regards to him being considered "nuts" I haven't really seen anyone that disagrees with that assertion. Some EMTs have speculated that he might have been having a diabetic attack (10 hours no food/water, overweight) which has symtoms of appearing drunk/crazy. Others say he appeared delusional.

But he was definately engaging in destruction of property and threatening people; not acceptable behavior, even if you are from Europe.

For instance, I agree.

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Sorry - have to post this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAEVgRWq6s

The kid was not following instructions, turned his back and put his hands in his pockets. You do NOT turn your back and start fumbling in your pockets when getting a ticket, especially if the cop is alone and feeling jittery. But then again, zapping him because he didn't obey a command makes me think it was a bit of a power trip.

But overall I'm on the cops side. Again, assuming no taser, pull a gun? Kid does something stupid ends up dead instead of just shocked.

[GoNzO]

Re: Tasers...

My 2 cents....

I like tasers. Never been shot by one but have had many patients brought in by law enforment who have. I have also been present in the ER when they are used to restrain a patient who is out of control. Good way of ending things fast. I have NEVER seen a poor result of using them first hand. I think one thing needs to be remembered. People need to start taking responsibility for what they do. I dont know how many times a patient wants to take on the world and threatens harm...but once they are tased they cant figure out why they got tased. Now really there is only one other way to control people who want to fight.....gang tackle. Now I have seen first hand what this does. Broken arms, legs, internal injuries, facial injuries, etc. Or maybe a stick should be used and they should hit you with that!. Now I have watched the video in Vancouver. I think it was warrented. You come to a foreign country and act like an idiot all aggressive and we are to pat you on the back and say its okay. Now I dont like that he died. Feel bad for the family. I dont care if you are frustrated and have stood around for your luggage which never comes. BE PREPARED!. Come in hand with a translation book, etc. I dont travel to Russia or any other country without a translation book and basic language skills. He is at fault. Act like a moron be treated like a moron. He was a risk. To himself and others. Now if there is a threatening person where I am I want law enforcement to do the job tey have to to end it QUICK, so others and myself are not in danger.
Lets note tasers have been used tens of thousands of times with good results. Law enforcement should have to ask you if you have health problems before they use it. THey dont ask you if a bullet will kill before they shoot you!. Over all it has good results that end things safe. Now using fists, batons, rubber bullets, gang tackles, all COULD result in injury or death. All it takes is one lucky punch and your dead. Or a head hitting the floor(etc) and your dead.
Now I am not for unreasonable use of force. I am not for people who think that if they have a gun or large flash light that makes them macho. I dont care for the excuses that mentally ill deserve different treatment. If you are a threat you are a threat, NO matter what your mental condition is. In fact if you are mentally unstable you are a larger risk. So end it quick.
I personally think that a little pain is a good thing. Teach you for next time that if you get out of control the result is lots of pain. Its a deterant. In psych they call it "conditioning". LOL.
I feel if I act like a fool, being aggressive in ANY other country in this world that I would be dealt with ASAP. I think it would be aggressive and I would be lucky if I wasnt shot.
WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEY SAY AND DO?

[calgarydub]

Re: Tasers...

I have done some thinking about the Vancouver situation. I have come to believe it was more of how the police handled the situation than the taser itself. THEY were the ones that decided to shock him twice. THEY were the ones who jumped on him and smuthered him. THEY were the ones beating him with a baton. I just can't wait to hear what the post-mordem autopsy report shows.


While I don't know how many deaths have been caused by tasers, the fact is that it is becomming a more and more frequent event. This can't be happening so often if it is going to be a tactic used by police, plain and simple.

How can slamming a computer keyboard into the floor be punishable by death? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to catch any of you moving things around or sweating or I might just kill you too??

[Stonewall]

Re: Tasers...

I just watched the video on youtube and it made me sick. It is like watching a snuff film. His death was only partially due to the taser and had more to due with the stupidity of the actions of those officers. i hope they are held accountable for their actions as any person how is not in law enforcement would have already had the book thrown at them.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

Sorry - have to post this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMAEVgRWq6s

The kid was not following instructions, turned his back and put his hands in his pockets. You do NOT turn your back and start fumbling in your pockets when getting a ticket, especially if the cop is alone and feeling jittery. But then again, zapping him because he didn't obey a command makes me think it was a bit of a power trip.

But overall I'm on the cops side. Again, assuming no taser, pull a gun? Kid does something stupid ends up dead instead of just shocked.

Thats what you get for arguing with a cop. Of course you don't act like that. However comparing american situations, to Canadian ones is not just. They have more people driving around with guns who are more then happy to fire at the police.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

I have done some thinking about the Vancouver situation. I have come to believe it was more of how the police handled the situation than the taser itself. THEY were the ones that decided to shock him twice. THEY were the ones who jumped on him and smuthered him. THEY were the ones beating him with a baton. I just can't wait to hear what the post-mordem autopsy report shows.


While I don't know how many deaths have been caused by tasers, the fact is that it is becomming a more and more frequent event. This can't be happening so often if it is going to be a tactic used by police, plain and simple.

How can slamming a computer keyboard into the floor be punishable by death? Doesn't make sense to me. I don't want to catch any of you moving things around or sweating or I might just kill you too??

I doubt the taser killed him but the actions followed by the officer. If you are going to use a taser you follow procedure and would appear that it was not followed. Had they gone through all the steps and then tasered him and then let his system go out of shock this may have ended much better.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

[Coker Rat]

Re: Tasers...

[Coker Rat]

Re: Tasers...

WOW! you guys see this one? This one takes the cake if you ask me, imagine if this guy died...


Driver Gets Tazed For Being Slow - Watch more free videos

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Looked like he deserved it to me.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

Looked like misuse of authority to me. He just cant wait to pull it out. What's sad is he was more then likely treated this way for driving while being black.

The cop was just a tool and is clearly unstable and should not be in a position of authority, just like the Polish man, it looks like the police officer was having a bad day. Just like any other profession, losers exist within every profession unfortunately this profession comes with a significant amount of authority. No different then teachers, you have excellent teachers and then you have loser teachers.

Just like anything else, sure you can use your taser however like the other video all that he had to do was treat the man like a human being. Sure police don't need to answer to you but if the officers behavior was better this could have gone a completely different way. The officer has just as much control as the person he is talking to, to decide which way things go, maybe these officers need to take a class in how to diffuse a situation as instead of adding to it. Its no wonder he is just some pee-on traffic cop.

[nordex]

Re: Tasers...

My 2 cents....

I like tasers. Never been shot by one but have had many patients brought in by law enforment who have. I have also been present in the ER when they are used to restrain a patient who is out of control. Good way of ending things fast. I have NEVER seen a poor result of using them first hand. I think one thing needs to be remembered. People need to start taking responsibility for what they do. I dont know how many times a patient wants to take on the world and threatens harm...but once they are tased they cant figure out why they got tased. Now really there is only one other way to control people who want to fight.....gang tackle. Now I have seen first hand what this does. Broken arms, legs, internal injuries, facial injuries, etc. Or maybe a stick should be used and they should hit you with that!. Now I have watched the video in Vancouver. I think it was warrented. You come to a foreign country and act like an idiot all aggressive and we are to pat you on the back and say its okay. Now I dont like that he died. Feel bad for the family. I dont care if you are frustrated and have stood around for your luggage which never comes. BE PREPARED!. Come in hand with a translation book, etc. I dont travel to Russia or any other country without a translation book and basic language skills. He is at fault. Act like a moron be treated like a moron. He was a risk. To himself and others. Now if there is a threatening person where I am I want law enforcement to do the job tey have to to end it QUICK, so others and myself are not in danger.
Lets note tasers have been used tens of thousands of times with good results. Law enforcement should have to ask you if you have health problems before they use it. THey dont ask you if a bullet will kill before they shoot you!. Over all it has good results that end things safe. Now using fists, batons, rubber bullets, gang tackles, all COULD result in injury or death. All it takes is one lucky punch and your dead. Or a head hitting the floor(etc) and your dead.
Now I am not for unreasonable use of force. I am not for people who think that if they have a gun or large flash light that makes them macho. I dont care for the excuses that mentally ill deserve different treatment. If you are a threat you are a threat, NO matter what your mental condition is. In fact if you are mentally unstable you are a larger risk. So end it quick.
I personally think that a little pain is a good thing. Teach you for next time that if you get out of control the result is lots of pain. Its a deterant. In psych they call it "conditioning". LOL.
I feel if I act like a fool, being aggressive in ANY other country in this world that I would be dealt with ASAP. I think it would be aggressive and I would be lucky if I wasnt shot.
WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT THEY SAY AND DO?

Yup in Canada were all about knee jerk reactions, get er done eh. Just like them Americans. eh

Give me a break. You should be able to fly into a international airport and be able to be taken care of this is Canada and last I checked we try to diffuse and peace keep.

If the police are not capable of diffusing a situation in 20 seconds maybe they should spend more then 20 seconds.

If someone is looking for someone and asks for help from airport staff maybe they should help instead of assuring you that person is not there and sending you on your way home that is 2 hours away. Every core fundamental value that Canada stands for is shattered to pieces in what unfolded in Vancouver.

I also find it to be interesting that you work in a medical field and don't believe that the officers should take into account the situation. They do know they are in an airport and people may be a little off given the stress etc. and if they are unable to take this into account with their dealings they should not be working with the public. The police could have diffused the situation and things could have ended much better. I find it funny the public approached him and tried to diffuse it and security was in the process of diffusing it and in came the police and didn't even try. Maybe in some other country but not here.