Tasers...

[VAG_Tech]

Tasers, good? or bad?

Lets disscuss....

[Duby T]

Re: Tasers...

Coming from a law-enforcement background, I can see the benefits to having tasers. However, after reviewing the footage from the Vancouver Airport incident, I can honestly say that those officers were not justified in using the taser.
In the law enforcement field, we use a "use of continuum". This continuum is a guide to help determine which form of action we use under certain cicumstances. In this particular circumstance, the officers were not justified in using the taser. The individual was un-armed at the time the RCMP arrived and appeared to be co-operative. If you watch the video, he raises his hands to chest level as a sign of co-operation (non-verbal indicator) and he clearly listened to the officers demand to stand where he pointed. To make matters worse, there were four officers vs one individual. Following the verbal commands, the officers were to move on to the next step on the continuum, which is soft empty hand control. If the individual resists, you can take the next step and use hard empty hand techniques. If this step also fails, you are justified in using a baton, pepper spray or taser. After reviewing the footage, it is clear that the officers failed to use soft empty hand control and were quick to use the taser.
After watching the footage numerous times with fellow co-workers, we all felt that the officers were completely out of line.

[100%VAGitarian]

Re: Tasers...

i'm sure anyone would have a violent, unpredictable reaction to being zapped by one of those. so the police reaction is , "he's still out of control! he's still resisting! hit him again!"

not cool.

[DeanerF]

Re: Tasers...

50000 volts ?

safe?

ha!

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Tasers are less lethal than batons or getting punched/choked out. They have no lasting effects once the 5 second burst is over. They are easy to use for compliance which I sort of don't like as they can grow to rely on it instead of talking. But every one of them has been zapped themselves so they know what it feels like.

Open hand control isn't used when someone is suspected of being high or delusional. He had a stapler in his hand - why should the cops risk themselves? Bashing your skull with a metal object is far more likely to kill you than a taser - he obviously had something wrong with him to begin with.

Judging by how long he tried fighting them off I don't really understand how people are blaming the taser at all. Before seeing the video I thought they zapped him and he dropped over dead. Watching the video makes it look far more likely someone choked him by accident or suffocated him with knees on the chest.

I'd like to see the same rage being shown in the media applied to doctors who make the wrong call and someone dies...

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Oh yah, here's another situation. Let's suppose I'm drunk and causing trouble, tossing crap around etc. And the cop that arrives is a 130 lb female officer who is more than capable of being a cop, but isn't going to win UFC any time soon. I start acting threatening, I'm way bigger than her, and I'm drunk stupid so I lunge at her.

Case A: She has a taser. Full power to get control of me without doing permanent damage or putting herself at risk. Zap, directs, no compliance, zap again, compliance. Under control, not dead.

Case B: She has no taser. She tries to use a baton, but now she's in close I pull a knife and stab her or I get clubbed uncouncious, or we're now in a street fight and we both get pounded.

Case C: She has no taser but decides I'm a real threat. She has no choice but to pull her gun - I'm an idiot and still don't listen so she shoots me dead.

Substitute drunk with any sort of delusional medical condition, drugs, seizure, etc...

There are tons of cases where a taser lets the police take down someone that they otherwise would have been forced to shoot with a gun.

IMO The taser is an equalizer that let's the police hire a more diverse group of people rather than the traditional military, physically imposing types.

[Bullfrog]

Re: Tasers...

Police Rarely Jump The Gun With Excessive Force, They're Trained Profesionals And Should Be Treated As So, Don't Get Me Wrong There Are A Few Testosterone Pumped Po That Want Violence More Than A Peaceful Resolve, But The Majority Of The Time They Use Caution In Every Situation, I'd Rather Be Tasered Than Beaten With A Baton, Or Even Shot For That Matter. I'm Tired Of Seeing People Get Half Of A Confrontation On Tape And The The Cops (the People That See All Of The Nasty Sh*t We Don't Even Think About) Get All Of The Blame. I'd Rather Some Junkie Or Criminal Get Killed Accidentally Than Than A Cop. All In All, Power To The Taser.

[Bullfrog]

Re: Tasers...

Oh yah, here's another situation. Let's suppose I'm drunk and causing trouble, tossing crap around etc. And the cop that arrives is a 130 lb female officer who is more than capable of being a cop, but isn't going to win UFC any time soon. I start acting threatening, I'm way bigger than her, and I'm drunk stupid so I lunge at her.

Case A: She has a taser. Full power to get control of me without doing permanent damage or putting herself at risk. Zap, directs, no compliance, zap again, compliance. Under control, not dead.

Case B: She has no taser. She tries to use a baton, but now she's in close I pull a knife and stab her or I get clubbed uncouncious, or we're now in a street fight and we both get pounded.

Case C: She has no taser but decides I'm a real threat. She has no choice but to pull her gun - I'm an idiot and still don't listen so she shoots me dead.

Substitute drunk with any sort of delusional medical condition, drugs, seizure, etc...

There are tons of cases where a taser lets the police take down someone that they otherwise would have been forced to shoot with a gun.

IMO The taser is an equalizer that let's the police hire a more diverse group of people rather than the traditional military, physically imposing types.

WORD.

[JustALilBit]

Re: Tasers...

I beleive that they are an effective way to subdue an potential threat. In order for the police to use it though they should have a very good cause. Jobs in the plice field seem to be getting more and more dangerous as the years progress. This year for instance there were those two officers in the Territories that we killed. And a couple years ago at the crack house those 4 mounties were killed.
I think they are a good idea as long as the idea of carrying around 50000 volts doesnt go to their head

[The Brice]

Re: Tasers...

50000 volts ?

safe?

ha!

It's amperes that kill you not voltage.

[Stonewall]

Re: Tasers...

It's amperes that kill you not voltage.

That all depends on where the two contact points are. Close enough to the heart and 15mA will be enough to stop it.

[The Brice]

Re: Tasers...

True but that is the amperage that kills you not the voltage is all I'm saying, and 15mA won't usually stop your heart but it will cause ventricular fibrillation which will kill you just the same.

[Kordain]

Re: Tasers...

Wheres Aleks on this one, maybe he can tell us how many people hes had to treat from taser terror!!

[Russell]

Re: Tasers...

I don’t think it is so much the taser, but the people using them…some of the people with tasers don’t understand what it feels like, or when to stop. There was a good case of this on the news last night, a guy drove away from a police officer unaware that he was being given a ticket (or something like that) , once the police officer got up to him he tasered him twice… dude was like 60, not really a threat. The other case they had was a protester that they used the taser against twice when clearly he was not a threat to being with, the second time he was on the ground with his face being pushed into the road. So its not the taser but when and how they are able to use them, in my mind it is assault.

The problem I think is the fact that it is seen to have no consequence, or that is the way they are/were portraying it to the public. That they can use this tool and really there is no harm done, but it is clear from several cases (in Canada and the USA) that people can die from this in which case it should be treated like a gun and they should be given proper training for it (which I don’t think they all have).

[Khyron]

Re: Tasers...

Um, every cop that is certified to use a taser has been tasered. Usually more than once. Every cop that is certified to use pepper spray has had it in their face. Usually more than once. Etc. I got the stun gun portion of the taser just because I wanted to know how much it hurts. It's safer than anything else they can do to you, especially if you're on PCP or something.

They also log each time they are discharged, some even spraying metal identification flakes when they are fired, so the usage can be tracked similar to bullets.