One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

[Bullfrog]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

This May Reduce Fatalities, Cash Cow Or Not, Is That Such A Bad Thing?

[nordex]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

This May Reduce Fatalities, Cash Cow Or Not, Is That Such A Bad Thing?

no kidding.

[Khyron]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

Red light cameras and photo radar vans are two seperate things. If your oblivious to a massive camera box sitting in an intersection and then choose to blow a light you deserve a ticket. Again, if you can't see the big camera as your blowing through an intersection you deserve a ticket.

Ok so I'm looking at my speedo to make sure it doesn't tip over 51km/hr, and looking for light poles with cameras on top. Too bad I miss the guy jaywalking and wipe him out.

This is just a licence for the rich to speed - they even acknowledge that with their hope that the poor people will be moving barriers. Great. As I said before - if they have a decent buffer on it, like 20-25k even, then I won't care as much but after seeing my dad get a ticket for 57 in a 50 I don't trust the system to be reasonable at all.

I've never gotten a red light ticket but I still don't believe they reduce accidents at all. Increase rear endings in winter, for sure.

[Tromping_Maniac]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

This May Reduce Fatalities, Cash Cow Or Not, Is That Such A Bad Thing?

Do you have any evidence that it will or won't reduce fatalities? Maybe instead of having a redlight camera to reduce redlight accidents maybe increase the delay time between red switching to green.

[100%VAGitarian]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

i bet they would make a ton more cash if they had cell phone talker cams, no turn signal cams, better yet, merge lane cams!!!!!!!! with all the focus on speeding, it's no wonder the dealers and junkies are ruining this town.

[nordex]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

Ok so I'm looking at my speedo to make sure it doesn't tip over 51km/hr, and looking for light poles with cameras on top. Too bad I miss the guy jaywalking and wipe him out.

This is just a licence for the rich to speed - they even acknowledge that with their hope that the poor people will be moving barriers. Great. As I said before - if they have a decent buffer on it, like 20-25k even, then I won't care as much but after seeing my dad get a ticket for 57 in a 50 I don't trust the system to be reasonable at all.

I've never gotten a red light ticket but I still don't believe they reduce accidents at all. Increase rear endings in winter, for sure.

First off, I think this is way better then a photo radar van, with this you have the luxury of knowing where the trap is and do not have to be distracted looking for photo radar vans parked in the bush in front of a cross walk creating a potential collision with a pedestrian.

However, if you have an issue and are not capable of slowing down w/o looking at our speedometer when you are approaching an intersection I would recommend maybe you drive 5 clicks below the speed limit.

Why is it acceptable to be doing just under 85 through an intersection that is posted 60? I recommend you take a look at some videos that demonstrate the difference speed can have in a collision. I'm pretty sure that 19-24 km makes a world of a difference.

You can go on all you want about looking down at your speedometer for a second and a J-walker is now in front of you in that split section... What is the alternative? if it happend that fast and your speeding, even just a bit, chances are you wont be able to react and at least if your looking at your spedometer you were slowing down and didnt hit them as hard.

If you are speeding through an intersection you have much less ability to analyze the situation and react and if your superman and don't need the extra time maybe think about all the other idiots that are on the roads speeding.

[nordex]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

Do you have any evidence that it will or won't reduce fatalities? Maybe instead of having a redlight camera to reduce redlight accidents maybe increase the delay time between red switching to green.

I am going to slow down before proceeding through intersections. That should be all the evidence you need.

Unlike photo radar this addresses the issue. Red light cameras are sitting in high collision intersections and are stationary and well always prevent people from speeding through the high risk intersection.



Do you have any evidence it won't reduce fatalities?

[Khyron]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

By your argument, we should reduce the max speed limit to 40. It would save lives. Then 30. Because a collision at 30 is scientifically proven to be safer than 40.

What you're missing is people walk and drive at a speed they feel comfortable at. The 85th percentile rule. If 85% of the traffic is travelling that speed, that is the correct speed to post the limit. Driving UNDER "real limit" causes just as much danger as over. Road rage, stress, as well as reduced following distances and tailgating.

But they don't do that here. Why is it "dangerous" to drive 81km on a light traffic Sarcee trail on a perfectly clear sunny summer day, yet it's just fine to drive 79 during the dead of winter on icy roads at night with cold shitty all season tires? It's MONEY. Traffic only flows with variety of speeds, otherwise it would just be a big clump of traffic/train.

I'll be fine driving 30km per hour, just don't crap on me if I'm watching a dvd and eating my dinner while doing so.

[nordex]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

By your argument, we should reduce the max speed limit to 40. It would save lives. Then 30. Because a collision at 30 is scientifically proven to be safer than 40.

What you're missing is people walk and drive at a speed they feel comfortable at. The 85th percentile rule. If 85% of the traffic is travelling that speed, that is the correct speed to post the limit. Driving UNDER "real limit" causes just as much danger as over. Road rage, stress, as well as reduced following distances and tailgating.

But they don't do that here. Why is it "dangerous" to drive 81km on a light traffic Sarcee trail on a perfectly clear sunny summer day, yet it's just fine to drive 79 during the dead of winter on icy roads at night with cold shitty all season tires? It's MONEY. Traffic only flows with variety of speeds, otherwise it would just be a big clump of traffic/train.

I'll be fine driving 30km per hour, just don't crap on me if I'm watching a dvd and eating my dinner while doing so.

Actually my argument is to follow the law. Let me quote the preamble of the constitution act of 1982 "Where as Canada is founded upon principals that reconize the supremacy of God and the rule of law".

Secondly, where did you hear about the "85 percentile rule" and I take it you meant percent as percentile and percent are 2 very different things. Percentile refers to one driver that occupies one observation of the distribution of all drivers on the road.

To answer your question about "why" its dangerous. It's more then likely not going to make a difference if your doing 81 in an 80 however the law says 80 not 81.

Also to answer your question about " it's just fine to drive 79 during the dead of winter on icy roads at night with cold shitty all season tires?" its actually not, if the conditions do not permit the speed limit and you are doing 79 1 click below the speed limit you could very well be cited for dangerous driving.

[100%VAGitarian]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

if the light is green and i pass through it and hit a jaywalker, it's his fault, wether i'm speeding or not. i agree with Khyron. law or not, the posted speed limit has become some sort of guideline now for people. keeping up with traffic is the norm. if everyone does 100 on an 80, so be it. gotta keep up. are there any stats to prove that if the limit is 80 and everyone does 100, that accidents are increased, and due to speeding? sorry, it's the slow guy still doing 80 that's gonna be the problem.

artical in the sun last week talked about how high the accident rates are on the deerfoot, and which intersections/merges are the high risk zones. i'm sure placing cameras there to monitor how the flow works, who merges correctly, signals, (hey thats 2 tickets in one photo!) and make changes from there, will reduce accidents far more than monitoring how fast i go through a light that is already giving me the right of way, 10 clicks over, right along with the traffic flow.

although i do think it is still not cool to blow thorough at 150km/h, camera or not, dudes will still do it.

[nordex]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

if the light is green and i pass through it and hit a jaywalker, it's his fault, wether i'm speeding or not. i agree with Khyron. law or not, the posted speed limit has become some sort of guideline now for people. keeping up with traffic is the norm. if everyone does 100 on an 80, so be it. gotta keep up. are there any stats to prove that if the limit is 80 and everyone does 100, that accidents are increased, and due to speeding? sorry, it's the slow guy still doing 80 that's gonna be the problem.

artical in the sun last week talked about how high the accident rates are on the deerfoot, and which intersections/merges are the high risk zones. i'm sure placing cameras there to monitor how the flow works, who merges correctly, signals, (hey thats 2 tickets in one photo!) and make changes from there, will reduce accidents far more than monitoring how fast i go through a light that is already giving me the right of way, 10 clicks over, right along with the traffic flow.

although i do think it is still not cool to blow thorough at 150km/h, camera or not, dudes will still do it.

First off, you may want to check in to the fact about who's responsible if YOU hit a j-walker. In St. Albert where I live, they just charged a man for hitting a j-walker cutting across the busiest road in St. Albert.

The speed limit is in place for a reason. Laws are not guidelines. If everyone is doing 100 in an 80 they are opening themselves up to all sorts of potential problems. If they get in an accident and it is determined they were doing the "normal" speed which happens to be 20 over they can look forward to all sorts of other charges.

Secondly, if there was a RELIABLE method that could take pictures for other traffic infractions that would be awesome but likely this won't happen as, no real reliable way to to take this sort of picture exists and is something that can only be judged by an officer.

I don't think it's to far fetched to believe this is going to cause people to slow down while going through intersections.

[Khyron]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

Speed limit signs haven't changed much since inception - they didn't have cops with digital photos and lasers back then. They were set with the INTENTION that they couldn't ticket that precisely. The road can handle 100, they know everyone drives 20 over, they post it 60. Traffic engineers work on this premise. They also work with the 85th PERCENTILE - that's why Texas recently INCREASED their speed limit on interstates from 75 to 85mph. 85% of the drivers were driving well over 75. Now we have the precision of measuring speed and enforcing it en mass thus the limits should be raised to what's really appropriate. Or take the vehicle into account. They've got cameras, a corvette doesn't need the same limit as a motorhome towing a boat (even though both drivers have the same licence).

I'd love to fit your car with a GPS and see if you ever go 1 km over the (intentionally artificial limit). Not once - because even 1km over 1 time you broke the law just like everyone else. Set it at 40 over, you'd be in better company (maybe..perhaps 85%? :P)

http://www.dma.org/~ganotedp/85th.htm

And I'm well aware of driving safe for the conditions, however show me how this automated speed enforcement system that takes it into account? You driving 79 in an 80 in snow is fine while me driving 89 in an 80 on bone dry roads at noon is fine.

[Khyron]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

Furthermore to the 85th rule - that's exactly why multinovas are set at where they are. The police cannot set a speed camera for 81 on Glenmore, because it would catch more than 15% of the traffic. That's why they monitor the speeds with those hoses across the road before setting up traffic enforcement.

Finally, as someone who has hit a jaywalker, I can tell you that not only is the driver not at fault, but the pedestrian was given a ticket while laying on the stretcher and I was told I could sue them for the damage to my car. In BC a porsche driver hit a ped and ICBC did sue him privately for the damage to the car.

[100%VAGitarian]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

/\/\"Secondly, if there was a RELIABLE method that could take pictures for other traffic infractions that would be awesome but likely this won't happen as, no real reliable way to to take this sort of picture exists and is something that can only be judged by an officer."

i'm sure a video camera would catch a car sitting in the merge lane, parked with no signal on. we all judge that crap everyday. zoom in on plate, send tickets in mail. and make the ticket for careless driving, since they have absolutly no care if they are doing that. if they put a cop in a photo radar van to sit and monitor all day, why not put him at the side of a merge lane.

(most) cops are just as bad. they pick and choose who they pull over. lead by example comes to mind. i cruised all the way home from downtown the other night on memorial, right beside a cop. looked me right in the eye as we both did 100. i then gave him a nod and left him at the light at deerfoot.

don't get me wrong, i'm not a speeding advocate, but i think the police and gov have tunnel vision when it comes to what they feel is the leading factor for causing accidents.

[Stonewall]

Re: One step closer to Speed on Green cameras

As someone who's only photo tickets where 61 in a 60 and supposedly 63 as they never sent me a picture of my car I think that the camera did nothing to impede me from speeding. Hell it was in my old 85 golf so I am sure the speedo was at least that far out... let alone the fact the car couldn't drive much faster lol