More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

[Billip]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

So there are a few things I'd like to say, just to get off my chest.

First off, large companies like FS and Amazon do not buy small amounts of products. They purchase in very large quantities, so as to get the bulk discount and to allow for lower selling prices. Wholesalers are in the exact same boat. Wholesalers will purchase even more than any one retailer at any given time. So we've got to factor a few things in here. The dollar has only been strong for a relatively short period of time, I would be incredibly shocked if ANY large manufacturer of any product would adjust their prices in such a short amount of time. They will look at the markets, and they will analyze the situation over and over again. Until they see that the markets are stable and that the dollar will stay constant. Until then you're probably not going to see any significant price adjustments outside of a select few markets (seasonal foods, oil, etc.) which are always in a constant state of change, and the general populous is used to the ebb and flow.

Second, if there is any section of the current market that would take a hit from dropping the pricing on goods, it would be the wholesalers. They are the one's with stockpiles of goods, and they are the one's who are selling product to the retailers. Until they are willing to lower the prices that they sell to stores at, we again will be lucky to see any price adjustments.

Third, the finance minister has zero say in anything dealing with pricing. He cannot change the pricing structure for countless numbers of companies, nor can he force any wholesalers to change their prices. He can recommend and tell the populous whatever he may want, but in the end his presence on the markets is virtually that of a Gnat on an Elephant.

Fourth, in smaller retail locations such as my own, or any other local business, store there order in parts in smaller quantities than the Big Box Stores. So even though it seems as if we are ordering in product at all times, the pricing structure we follow is again ... dictated by the wholesalers. Unless of course as in our case your prices are dictated by a larger company (in my case, Apple).

So basically I'm saying that on the whole most sectors of the market won't see any drastic price cuts or adjustments to account for the current strength of the Canadian dollar (and the inversely proportionally failing American dollar), until it stays consistently above the American dollar for long enough to ensure that the Canadian dollar won't just drop back down to where it was previously sat in comparison to the American dollar.

While your post does contain a lot of truth, this is the type of talk that skirts around the primary issues. Let's understand a few things about successful product sales operations:

1. Supply Chain Management: the shorter the supply chain, from concept to sale, the more money a company makes. Great companies know this and do it well. So while FS or Amazon may place huge orders, they also sell huge quantities. No successful retail operation sits on inventory longer than they need to. I would think a few months would be the very longest a good retail operation should sit on inventory. So your point about inventory is only really true for a few months.

2. Supply/Demand/Market Pricing: prices of goods and services are set based on supply and demand and the competition in the market. Plain and simple. It would be wrong to think prices in Canada will automatically adjust to reflect the delta between the US and Canadian dollar. The ONLY way prices will adjust is if you upset either the supply or demand. So my suggestion is simply stop buying in Canada. If there is no demand, sellers will adjust prices to entice buyers. If you can't NOT buy in Canada (ie: new car sales/snowmobiles/etc.) then DON'T BUY.

Everyone needs to remember that consumers have the ultimate power: the choice not to buy what is being sold. It's understandable that in some situations purchases must be made, but most of the time delaying a purchase by 6 months or a year isn't going to kill you, and is actually probably a good thing.

[nordex]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

So there are a few things I'd like to say, just to get off my chest.

First off, large companies like FS and Amazon do not buy small amounts of products. They purchase in very large quantities, so as to get the bulk discount and to allow for lower selling prices. Wholesalers are in the exact same boat. Wholesalers will purchase even more than any one retailer at any given time. So we've got to factor a few things in here. The dollar has only been strong for a relatively short period of time, I would be incredibly shocked if ANY large manufacturer of any product would adjust their prices in such a short amount of time. They will look at the markets, and they will analyze the situation over and over again. Until they see that the markets are stable and that the dollar will stay constant. Until then you're probably not going to see any significant price adjustments outside of a select few markets (seasonal foods, oil, etc.) which are always in a constant state of change, and the general populous is used to the ebb and flow.

Second, if there is any section of the current market that would take a hit from dropping the pricing on goods, it would be the wholesalers. They are the one's with stockpiles of goods, and they are the one's who are selling product to the retailers. Until they are willing to lower the prices that they sell to stores at, we again will be lucky to see any price adjustments.

Third, the finance minister has zero say in anything dealing with pricing. He cannot change the pricing structure for countless numbers of companies, nor can he force any wholesalers to change their prices. He can recommend and tell the populous whatever he may want, but in the end his presence on the markets is virtually that of a Gnat on an Elephant.

Fourth, in smaller retail locations such as my own, or any other local business, store there order in parts in smaller quantities than the Big Box Stores. So even though it seems as if we are ordering in product at all times, the pricing structure we follow is again ... dictated by the wholesalers. Unless of course as in our case your prices are dictated by a larger company (in my case, Apple).

So basically I'm saying that on the whole most sectors of the market won't see any drastic price cuts or adjustments to account for the current strength of the Canadian dollar (and the inversely proportionally failing American dollar), until it stays consistently above the American dollar for long enough to ensure that the Canadian dollar won't just drop back down to where it was previously sat in comparison to the American dollar.

You make some good points however how do they justify industries that are not sitting on massive inventories? Not every over priced item is a harry potter book that was ordered and paid for 6 monthes in advance. Also companies that are sitting on large inventories are constantly ordering new product that comes out and that product should reflect the strenght of the canadian dollar. Companies like bestbuy/FS have a ton of buying power as does wal-mart. All they have to say is look you are going to price accordingly or we just won't carry your product in Canada.

I do understand it is a little more complex as they also can't be selling new product that is significantly cheaper then old inventory as they would never sell the stuff currently sitting on the shelf however they are also loosing a ton of buissiness given that many consumers can just order online from american retailers. I have been doing this often and have been saving a lot.


Look at porsche. They have taken iniative and have restructured the pricing but guess what, were still being taken for a trip on this side of the border. I go order a car today and it is built for me and delivered in 8 weeks, how can they justify charging me more? There are many industries that are choosing not to react because they don't have to and they are able to completly take advantage of consumers.

Like billyp said ultimatly the market well dictate what happens as consumers are in control. Given the strength of the dollar I think it would be extremly beneficial for manufactures to lower prices. If GMC were to have the same pricing here I am sure sales would dramatically increase as now would be the time to buy.

[MusicalGenius]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

Alright, I'm glad you guys have brought up a few things, and rather than quote both of you I'll just respond.

Billip, in agree that the shorter a supply chain is the more successful it is, but at the same time. Going back to my original post, it's the wholesalers who are the one's sitting on old stock. Not the retailers. Any successful retailer will hope to (or achieve) stock turns once a month, on the stretch two. Now I know I won't need to explain what a stock turn is, but there is a necessity for wholesalers to stockpile those products for retailers. A retailer will typically go online and check their suppliers stock levels. If the supplier has stock the retailer will order it, if not well usually there is an ETA as for when more stock will arrive. It's at this point that a price adjustment would most likely occur. When the wholesaler has the need to replenish their stock levels they will go to the manufacturer and will request that they observe the current strength of the Canadian dollar. Except there is one caveat to this desire. There are a select few large companies that would be willing to change their pricing structure within such a short amount of time, they would want to observe and see a maintained currency change prior to adjusting their Canadian prices.

Second, there are more ways to force a pricing change outside of purchasing outside of Canada. One is to instead stop purchasing from one Canadian retailer, this will force the opposing retailer to drop their prices until they are more competitive. This keeps business in Canada, and continues to support local business and/or Canadian businesses. As for holding off on a purchase, it's never a bad idea unless it is an immediate issue (house repairs, vehicle repairs, etc.), at which point taking care of the matter immediately is the best course of action.

Nordex, as much buying power as BestBuy or FS may possess, it still pales in comparison to the power of greed. Again in reference to my field of sales, in order to sell Apple product in your store you must apply to sell it. You have to apply separately to sell iPod's, and again for the computers. If FS or BestBuy were to choose not to sell the products simply because they are unable to buy it for a lower pice than they currently get, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. Products such as these are such hot sellers that to not carry them is to give up a portion of your sales. The greed of big box stores and to continuously sell more and more of everything is what will motivate them to continue carrying a product even if they cannot buy it for lower. As for if they were to simply say that they will no longer carry a product, the wholesaler or the manufacturer will more than likely tell them fine. It's the retailers decision not to carry their product, and considering how many places are authorized to sell the aforementioned product they'd be willing to cut their losses and instead redistribute that product to another retailer who will sell their product.

In relation to buying a car today and receiving it in 8 weeks, you would be one lucky S.O.B to receive pricing based on what the markets may be 8 weeks from now instead of today's currency fluctuations.

Now I don't doubt for a moment that pricing changes will be made. What I do doubt is that so many of us desire it to be rapid and immediate, but for my products I wont be surprised if I don't see the price on machines change until sometime in the new year (my guess is around the time of Macworld San Fransisco in January). What we have seen thus far is minor changes. Certain products have changed in price.

For instance:
iWork '06 was sold for $89 CAD and $79 USD.
iWork '08 is sold for $79 across the boarder.

.mac was sold last year for $129 CAD and $99 USD.
As of yesterday it is now $109 CAD and $99 USD.

Small adjustments like these are being seen from numerous distributors and manufacturers. For large ticket items like a computer, or Adobe software the prices have stayed constant, and most likely will for now. Until such time as the companies have noted that the Canadian dollar has stayed strong for a continuous period of time, and has no demise in the foreseeably near future.

[nordex]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

I completly disagree with the ipod. The ipod is a unique product that is almost inelastic, people go to purchas an ipod not an mp3 player they can charge whatever they want. Any other brand bestbuy can dictate, especially in Canada as they are basically the only big electonics box store. Wal-mart is known for its purchasing power. The only thing worse then doing buissness with wal-mart is not. The only reason bestbuy keeps the ipod around is for the fact that they sell accessories. Bestbuy has next to no margin on ipods and if there were no accessories they would not sell them. Speaking of which, if bestbuy tells a ipod case manufacture it well drop there product if they do not budge on price they well more then likely budge.

"In relation to buying a car today and receiving it in 8 weeks, you would be one lucky S.O.B to receive pricing based on what the markets may be 8 weeks from now instead of today's currency fluctuations."

Maybe I wasn't clear. If the car isnt built yet and I pay TODAY how does it cost more to build it for me then an american consumer that pays for it today. If the product doesnt exsist why is it diffcult to make a price change?

[Khyron]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

The american price should be going up, not just the cdn going down. Unless we're seeing the same gains against the Euro/Pound etc?

[Stonewall]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

Don't get me started on ipoods. Everyone has bought in to a semi mediocre product that most retailers make less then $5 selling. The only reason most places sell them is to justify having accessories which they can make a little extra money on. Apple prices have always been out to lunch and I bet they are laughing all the way to the bank as they have such a tight leash on the all products they sell.

[nordex]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

Don't get me started on ipoods. Everyone has bought in to a semi mediocre product that most retailers make less then $5 selling. The only reason most places sell them is to justify having accessories which they can make a little extra money on. Apple prices have always been out to lunch and I bet they are laughing all the way to the bank as they have such a tight leash on the all products they sell.

I don't mind paying personally. I purchased a macbook pro from them last year and some of the paint was coming off. Long story short the part was backordered. They replaced it with the current top of the line unit. Gave me the new os and $150 coupon.

Then my buddy bought a powerbook 2 yrs ago brought his in because the paint was pealing. his top case was back ordered and guess what they replaced his powerbook with a new Macbook pro.

Of course we had apple care but hp or any of those brands I doubt would ever do this.

[nordex]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

Suit targets auto price gap in Canada, U.S.

http://autos.canada.com/news/story.h...57e5f82cf9&p=1

[Khyron]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

Of course we had apple care but hp or any of those brands I doubt would ever do this.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Informa...l.aspx#benefit

Dell: 3Year Next Business Day Onsite/In Home Service, CompleteCare and Tech Support [Included in Price]

Most do, but they give you the choice of paying for it or not. So the geeks don't need to pay for it while the mom and pops can have the piece of mind if they want it. Dell comes to your house rather than making you ship it in, even if you're the dumbass who spills coffee into it.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

I agree with Geoff that US prices should probably come up as well, but the Canadian dollar has also made strong gains on the pound and Euro as well. I also do not expect our prices to be exactly even with the US as economies of scale, taxes and freight are items that will still cause differences but I think this 20% plus gap is far too much.

I understand wholesalers control the price and have purchased the inventory in advance, but I still do not think it was purchased years ago when exchange was a lot higher, we were already under 17% 10+ months ago so there could have been some valid time for adjustments, not to even but perhaps better then what he have seen. I would also like to go back and see how quick prices went up when exchange was getting worse, when it worked in that manner I am sure companies were a little quicker to make adjustments to prevent them from losing money, funny how that works.

I also think Apple, since it has been brought up, has been one of the better companies for closing the gap in exchange, when the last round of new ipods came out they did make their prices much closer between US and Cdn.

Overall I think my biggest issue is that this really points out how expensive it is to live in Canada, and especially here when we have had serious inflationary increases over the last little while. Really I doubt many of our salaries/wages have kept pace with the rising costs of goods in this city.

[Russell]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

I think Blair hits the nail on the head, its not that we want to see pricing go up and down everyday as the dollar moves. Rather that the prices we are seeing were set 1 or 2 years ago on some products and have never moved, some companies are starting to get better at adjusting but others seem to be waiting it out.

A great example is Lego, some of there pricing is a $0.31 difference, we have not seen that exchange since 2002.

[R_Ethug]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

the worst is magazines and like cards..

i had to go buy a few birthday cards the other day.. 2.50US and 4.50 CDN WTF is that!!

[The Brice]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

I heard about a class-action lawsuit being filed by a Canadian couple for discrimination today on the news. Hopefully this will get the ball rolling! I got this article from "The Canadian Press"

Canadian car-buyers file complaint in U.S. federal court against automakers
4 hours ago

BANGOR, Maine - A Canadian couple filed a class-action lawsuit in U.S. District Court claiming they are being illegally discriminated against by car companies that turn down their business because they're from Canada, their lawyer said Friday.

Rhonda Chancey and Allan Coombs, a married couple from Newfoundland, filed the complaint Wednesday, according to Stephanie Jazlowiecki, a lawyer in Topsham.

The complaint says General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, Honda and Toyota have rules forbidding U.S. dealers from selling their cars to people from Canada, where car prices are much higher, Jazlowiecki said. Denying Canadians the right to buy cars in the United States is a blatant form of discrimination based on their country of origin, she said.

There's no telling how many people will join the suit, she said.

"There are thousands of people who have been affected," she said.

Chancey and Coombs earlier filed a discrimination complaint with the Maine Human Rights Commission before filing the federal court lawsuit.

The couple claims that more than 80 car dealerships in New England, including 61 in Maine, refused their business when the tried to buy a new car.

They finally got a new vehicle when a relative in New Hampshire purchased it at a local dealership and then sold it to them. Even after paying a transfer tax and a sales tax twice, the vehicle was still cheaper than it would have been in Canada.

Auto industry representatives earlier had no comment on the specifics of the complaint filed with the Maine Human Rights Commission.

[Canadian Turbo]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

Was only a matter of time, lets see what happens next!

[Russell]

Re: More blockades for Canadians going South to shop

the worst is magazines and like cards..

i had to go buy a few birthday cards the other day.. 2.50US and 4.50 CDN WTF is that!!

walmart said it would sell all books, cards, etc for the same price as USD. Mind you the dollar hit a new record high today at 1.064 and is currently at 1.056.

Chapters also said they were giving cuts, along with GM.