RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

[James]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

I'm actually kind of amazed they used a Cayman as the platform for it. Still sex on wheels though.

?? Surprised? Its mid engine! Probably the best choice they could have made

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

I'm actually kind of amazed they used a Cayman as the platform for it. Still sex on wheels though.

not really all that surprising. while the 911 handles like a dream its by no means easy to get that kind of handling out of a rear engine car. By its sheer nature the car wants to oversteer deluxe. Porsche has done a fantastic job through suspension, swaybars, and electronic stability programs to counteract this natural urge of the car and give it a more neutral feel. Its been known for a while the boxster will handle better than a 911 just given the placement of the engine so its no surprise once the caymen was released it would become the platform of choice for the next supercar build.

[Polar36]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

You aren't truly driving the car if you have computer programs and whatnot helping/assisting you IMHO. But thats just my opinion....

Its still a sexy beast though, lol

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

HA!
when you've got 700hp and 650lb/ft of torque you dont need to be rowing your own gears. The slushbox porsche transmission is also worlds faster than any human will be able to shift, and makes sure that some twit with a big wallet doesn't dump a clutch and blow a hole through the side of his tranny by accident. Im all for the purist arguement but there are some things we simply do not need to do with these cars.
Without Porsche Active Stability Management or whatever the hell they call it, the 911 can be more than a handful even for experianced drivers at the limits. The GT cars you see aren't the same as the road going models we get, and while huge upgrades have been made through the suspension by porsche to diminish the oversteer tendancy of the 911 there is no denying the physics behind it. Just look at the old porsches, they were a ***** to drive due to the oversteer in them. And yes while the purist would say its part of the drive, it doesn't go over too well when you average guy who buys a porsche and takes it for a drive winds up going backwards into a guard rail cause the back end swung round on a turn.
High end car manufacturers have to put these things into cars, because sadly having a fat wallet does not mean you can drive, and does not mean you have any brains. It simply means you can afford a car that can write itself off in 3 seconds flat.

[Kor]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

Not sure about your statement that the automatic shifts worlds faster than any human. Also not sure why you are talking about hte 911 as this is based on the Cayman and I don't think oversteer is particularly a problem.

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

i don't have the time to dig up the tech sheets on the porsche paddle shift transmissions, but if you want to do some digging im sure you can find them fairly easily. The things are able to change gears much quicker than your regular human clutching and shifting by themselves. There's a reason F1 drivers stopped rowing their own gears years ago.

The reason the caymen makes the better platform is because the the mid engine design, vs the rear engine 911 is due to the nature of the physics of the 911 and its want to go back end happy.

This is a production sports car, not a race setup GT series specific car. Porsche/RUF and other car manufacturers know that simply because you have a fat wallet doesn't mean you can actually drive a 700hp car. And its not to say these people can't drive, its just these cars are a handful even for an experianced driver, and the ability for them to bite your head off in a split second is very real. The electronic programs are there to make the car more manageable and driveable for your average enthusiast allowing them to push the limits of the car with the safety net still there ready to reel them in if things start to get a little out of control.
I forget the exact time difference, but I remember watching a F430 driven by Ferrari's test driver and an enthusiast show host, able to lap only 2-3 seconds slower than the test driver going flat out, because the electronic programs of the F430 allowed him to push the limits without making the car too much of a handful like the RACE setting does, but still giving the full performance available to the driver.
If RUF wants to move units of these cars the last thing they want is drivers to be unable to drive them because they are too much of a handful. I know of a certain Carrera GT owner in Vancouver who beached his CGT on a curb island in town because he tried making a corner from a stop on a wet road and because the clutch is so brutal in those cars and modulation is impossible it lurched and wound up like a beached whale causing close to $100,000 in damage. Yeah its a $600,000 car and those who buy them have money....but $100,000 is a lot for anyone to shell out for a little slip of the foot.
The same goes for punching a hole through the side of a tranny cause you have 700lb/ft of torque at your disposal and make an error in judgement. RUF doesn't exactly want to be in the position to explain to some guy who shelled out $300K for a car, uhhh sorry you can't drive and that will be $75,000 to repair.

[Kor]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

I looked a bit and couldn't find anything official to support this claim, tiptronic isn't a sequential transmission so I still find it hard to beleive that its faster, I think some of the press for DSG type transmissions might have confused the issue especially in the blogosphere and internet forum world. I am willing to be corrected if someone does have time to dig up some facts.

Yes F1 drivers don't "row their own gears" but this is not an F1 car, far from it.

I think often automatics are used because of torque-multiplication properties of the torque convertor as well as durability under high power - I think they survive a lot better; maybe the stock manual gearbox won't handle that kind of power and that is perhaps why the choice.

Anyway I am sure RuF and other tuners try to make these cars drivable but at the end of the day they are making a car which is for a select group of customers who don't REALLY care because if they did they would not need 700hp (nobody does). They are selling to someone who knows they are buying a dangerous and insane machine.

Also even if someone blew out their (essentially Cayman) transmission, bet it won't be $75,000 to repair

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

replacement cost of the McLaren SLR tranny was upwards of $90,000USD I read from an article about some dude who had a nightmare time with his down in the states. And i'm going out on a limb here but im guessing this wont have a "stock" caymen tranny.

tiptronic =/ sequential transmission you are correct. Who the hell would put a tippy in a car like this. This has a seven speed sequential (essentially DSG-based) transmission.
You are completely correct about the use of the "automatic" transmissions and their ability to handle torque.

I think we're basically saying the same stuff here.

I would love to see one of these in person...... *droooool*

[Kor]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

Ah I think also we are arguing because I posted the facts of the story are wrong, I don't think RuF is actually using a 7 speed sequential after all, I read in another source that it will either be a porsche 6 speed or tip? But who knows.

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

lol....
lets just hope they use a sprung clutch if they go 6 speed. after seeing dick hardt's CGT beached like a whale a few years ago i almost cried.

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

just decided to go for a wander through some more reliable sources. It's not going to be based off the caymen at all, while the look is similar. Apparently 911 purists can stay happy cause it uses some of the chassis design for the 911 (can't see where) but the engine is mounted in the middle behind the driver.

article from a little more reliable of a source:

Exactly 20 years after the legendary CTR “Yellow Bird” and 10 years after the second CTR, RUF announces the all new CTR3. The RUF CTR3 was presented at the grand opening of the new RUF facility in Bahrain. While the first two CTR generations still had their engines in the rear, the new CTR3 has a mid engine design. However, one thing that the CTR3 has in common with its two predecessors is that it is a pure driving machine. The CTR3 is made to involve the driver in the driving experience.

The mid engine design provides exceptional balance and agile handling, while the longer wheel base provides better driving stability at high speed. The body of the CTR3 is a completely new development which is not based on any existing mid engine concept. It is aerodynamically designed for high speed. The body is constructed in steel, aluminum and kevlar-carbon. Zinc dipped steel is used for the front structure and the passenger compartment. The engine and transmission are fixed in a space frame and birdcage. The passenger compartment is protected the latest version of the famous RUF Integrated Roll Cage which is integrated into the A pillar and birdcage. The doors, with integrated side impact protection beams, and the front hood are made of aluminum. The body shell is made of kevlar-carbon composite.

The body styling was created by Ben Soderberg, who is responsible for the RUF design.

RUF has 30 years of experience with turbo charged boxer engines. The CTR3’s twin turbo charged 3.8 liter flat six cylinder engine has an output of 700 bhp at 7,000 rpm. The maximum torque is 657 lb-ft at 4,000 rpm. This engine design combines a compact construction with high performance. Each turbo charger is provided an intercooler which is placed in front of each rear wheel.

The sequential shift six speed transmission in the CTR3 is a new design and is transversally mounted. It can manage torque of up to 885 lb-ft. A shift indicator on the dashboard shows the gear in use. A limited slip differential is provided to maximize performance.

The sport suspension is designed for high level driving dynamics and safety. The front axles use McPherson struts and an anti-roll bar. The rear axles utilize motor sport technology with horizontal coil over shock absorbers fixed over push rods connected to the wheel carriers.

The brake system is designed to match the high performance of the engine and suspension. Both front and rear axles utilize 6 piston fixed light alloy calipers and ventilated, cross drilled ceramic composite discs. Each brake disc is 380mm in diameter. A specially designed Bosch anti-lock braking system is standard.

The CTR3 rolls on forged aluminum wheels with central locking. At the front 255/35 ZR19 tires are mounted on 8.5” X 19” wheels, while at the rear 335/30 ZR20 tires are mounted on 12.5” X 20” wheels.

The interior can be designed to the customer’s taste, from a functional light weight finish to sporty luxury finish with a leather and alcantera. The aluminum gear shift lever for the sequential shift transmission is a central unit to the interior. In addition, the 260 mph speedometer shows the driver that the CTR3 is made for high performance.

The lightweight construction allows for an empty weight (according to DIN) of 3,086 lbs. The result is a power to weight ratio of only 4.4 lbs per bhp.

The performance of the CTR3 is incredible. The acceleration from 0-62 miles per hour takes only 3.2 seconds. The top speed is 235 mph.

[Kor]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

I read/post on Cayman Club all the time, apparently according to contacts on there, the fact that the CTR3 is "not based on the Cayman" is something RuF is saying "officially" but it actually IS based on the Cayman.

The story is that they are saying its not because some big customers had a "problem" spending that much coin on a "Modified $50,000 Cayman" so RuF is now saying that it shares "Some Cayman Parts" but is based on a "custom platform" and is a "completely new development" which shares parts with the 911 platform (as does the Cayman, what a coincidence).

The unofficial but reliable word seems to be that it really is just a heavilly modded Cayman even if RuF doesn't admit it. RuF supposedly has bought 1 Cayman for every CRT3 it will produce or something like that, and even if they are replacing some of the body or modifying it, its still a lot of Cayman under there. Sadly they really don't want to say so. For the same reasons Porsche won't admit that the Cayman often bests the 911 on the track.

I had not read the rest of that info though, good stuff.

[RONDAL]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

Its the reason the caymen features the "detuned" version of basically the same engine. its so it doesn't cut into the 911 sales, or replace it as its flagship car. The caymen as I was saying in previous posts is much better balanced and centered than the 911, which while it is no slouch in the handling department, has to do a lot of work to fight the physics working against it.

I'm not surprised they are saying its not a caymen and is a fully custom deal. Though even if they are doing this buy 1 caymen produce 1 CTR3 the amount of work being done to the chassis to strengthen it and change it isn't exactly a slight modification. To be honest I am slightly surprised they would be buying caymens from porsche and simply modifying them, generally in the past they have built the chassis themselves from porsches prints using higher strength and lighter materials for the construction.

[Tuna]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

For the same reasons Porsche won't admit that the Cayman often bests the 911 on the track.

Didn't they have a similar issue with the 951? Their "Cheap" porsche was faster around a track then their "expensive" porsche which had all the purists ("expensive" porsche drivers) up in arms.

[Kor]

Re: RuF CTR3- Greatest Car Evar

Didn't they have a similar issue with the 951? Their "Cheap" porsche was faster around a track then their "expensive" porsche which had all the purists ("expensive" porsche drivers) up in arms.

Porsche is going to find itself in trouble before the 998 is out; I think they will gain some new markets with their new sedan and other expansions but will likely begin to lose sales of 997, boxsters and caymans as they compete in a tighter market against cars like the Z4 M Coupe, Corvette and new Skyline (to name a few). I am sure that there will be a NSX replacement before long from Honda as they phase out the S2000, plus exotics are increasingly available in the higher price range that competes with the 997 turbo.

The 997 interior is already looking dated (some would say classic, but its harder to sell these days) and the 330 hp flat 6 is topping out with the 3.8L and can't be tuned up any more to compete over the next couple of years.

I'm scared that the 998 is too many years away and needs a whole new engine series with better technology; this may take too long. The Cayman and Boxster will probably get the 3.8L sooner or later to keep sales strong as they age but the 911 is going into the crapper (except for the turbo of course).