Pre compressor water meth injection

[Mister T]

So I've been doing some research on the idea and wanted to know if anyone else here has attempted it. Better yet, I'm wondering if anyone has some hard data as to the difference it makes. From what I've gathered it makes a substantial difference in compressor efficiency. To the point where you're almost isothermal (dropping below ambient temps under compression).

However, I'm also aware that compressor erosion is a possibility. After looking around it seems like the major cause is A: Putting the nozzle in a location with bends and blocks which allow puddling and B: Large droplets forming as the nozzle pressure drops and ceases to properly atomize the W/M mix.

I spoke to the guys at Snow performance and they said the jury was still out. However, they have a solenoid setup that would eliminate the line pressure drop. Also, running a higher methanol to water ratio (75/25) helps insofar as the methanol vaporizes before it can impact with the compressor. I figure this, coupled with a 60 ml/min nozzle (the smallest one) right in front of the compressor may be viable.

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

So a guy on Passatworld gave me a great idea. Why not try to find something that combines a solenoid needle valve and a small orifice that's designed to atomize liquids. But what to use? You guessed it, it's a fuel injector!

If you were to take an injector and wire it into the switched output wire from the pump then it should open the spray whenever the pump activates. Then as soon as the pump stops, the solenoid instantly switches injector off. This should minimize the larger droplets associated with the pump pressure dropping. The pump pressure is also 150+ PSI so it shouldn't have any problems atomizing.

[BaggedGLI]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

Might want to look into spaying at an angle towards the compressor, I see it as just shooting across and pooling on the opposite side of the turbo inlet pipe....

Make sure you route the lines so they wont melt or anything, that methanol stuff is flammable!

Ask the philipinos I used to work with how i know.......

[Kor]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

Think its possible to get water in your intercooler if its a cold day and you're that efficient?

You could also use a nitrous type nozzle.

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

Might want to look into spaying at an angle towards the compressor, I see it as just shooting across and pooling on the opposite side of the turbo inlet pipe....

Make sure you route the lines so they wont melt or anything, that methanol stuff is flammable!

Ask the philipinos I used to work with how i know.......

I've been wondering about the angle myself. On one hand it may pool. However, if you're only activating at around 13-15 PSI, that should provide enough airflow to absorb anything that's being sprayed.

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

Think its possible to get water in your intercooler if its a cold day and you're that efficient?

You could also use a nitrous type nozzle.

How do you think a nitrous nozzle would stand up to methanol?

[R-Audi]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

If they are metal nozzles.. shouldnt they be the same as meth nozzles?


Did I see some moderating in there??? ha ha

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

They should be pretty much the same. As long as there aren't any internal seals on the nitrous nozzles that can dry out and shrink/crack. Do nitrous nozzles have the solenoid and needle valve placed internally like a fuel injector? Or is that assembly separate?

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

After doing some looking I like the idea of a dry nozzle as it's fairly thin and shouldn't interfere much with the pre-compressor airflow. Also, it's directional so a guy could spray directly into the compressor. However, if these things are designed to inject at 700+ PSI how will the atomization be with only 150 PSI of pump pressure?

[R-Audi]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

I havent used nitrous before.. but I beleive the solenoid is seperate.. and the nozzle is a simple metal nozzle.

[turbomeyers]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

i dont see the point in pre compressor injection , you should not do that to your turbo . inject after the intercooler , i have tried all the posible ways and it is the same reult great detonation reduction and power gained , so dont mess your turbo up

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

I went and looked at some nitrous nozzles and I'm not sure that they would be the best choice. The problem is that they don't atomize at the tip like I thought they did. The jetting is done before the end of the tip and then it deflects. While I'm sure that would disperse an expanding gas, I don't think it would atomize a liquid effectively.

Before I take the plunge on this I think I'm going to have to get some data (or at least a well informed opinion) on what kind of atomization I'd be getting from the different nozzle types (i.e. fuel injector, W/M nozzle etc...). If I can be reasonably assured of good atomization I think this could be viable. It's just a question of making sure of it before I start.

[Mister T]

Re: Pre compressor water meth injection

i dont see the point in pre compressor injection , you should not do that to your turbo . inject after the intercooler , i have tried all the posible ways and it is the same reult great detonation reduction and power gained , so dont mess your turbo up

Have you actually tried and logged airflow with and without pre-compressor injection? From everything I've seen the advantage of pre-injection is that it greatly reduces the heating/expansion that the air undergoes as it moves though the compressor. In effect, it moves the entire compressor map to the right by allowing greater compressor efficiency at higher speeds.