Audi S4's B5 EDL

[aliencurv]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

I'm not calling you a liar. What I'm saying is that 427 is a realistic number for a strong K04 car. 500WHP is just not going to happen on K04'sm, ESPECIALLY at 4000 feet elevation on crappy Calgary gas.

I've been for a drive in your car. In fact, I did some pulls beside your car while I was a few car lengths ahead in my own car

you drove beside mark's car, not mine. let's go for a drive. tell me when and where and i'll meet u.

ps, you're also removing words from my posts. i typed "near 500" and that's butt dyno coming from someone that spends a career building and driving cars that we dream of experiencing. near means anywhere between 450 - 500.

also, 427 and my brakes would engage on each wheel throughout the pull. as ppl watching this thread witnessed the runs will agree the wheels were stopping and starting. in itself, that issue provided lower numbers. logically, would you agree?

the number i came up with by my 1/4 was 450 wheel hp. the number cam came up with was a simple statement of "near 500" which could mean 475 or maybe even 450.

either way, let's go for a drive

[dogbreath]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

500 HP still kind of sounds low. I thought these car's were able to make alot more power then that?

[aliencurv]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

500 HP still kind of sounds low. I thought these car's were able to make alot more power then that?

dynojet's, american muscle's estimated numbers and ricers have created some issues when talking about power.

everyone is looking for these 1,000 hp numbers that they read about in magazines and see on youtube. lightspeed doesn't normally do dyno events due to this discussion. people are always dissapointed with their numbers because lightspeed's dyno is well calibrated and accurate. cam uses it as a tuning tool, not a number generator.

but, when u talk about hp, u always end up having discussions like this thread with "Experts" that have stopped learning and have no tuning experience.

the k04's can provide enough airflow for my power. however, how long they will last should be the concern

[dogbreath]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

What type of car do they work on at lightspeed?

[aliencurv]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

What type of car do they work on at lightspeed?

www.lightspeedinnovations.com

[Disturbo]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

dude the #'s your car is making is very good, I seen a few stage 3+ cars at waterfest making 418awhp on race fuel. I would be happy with those #'s for sure.

[R-Audi]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

you drove beside mark's car, not mine. let's go for a drive. tell me when and where and i'll meet u.

Ha ha ha... yeah, you can't quite compare OTS APR programming to APR with Meth and more then a few lemmi tweaks.

I'd love to see how the car drives now....Im sure your knowledge base of programming standalones has given the car an added bounce to its step!

[eyecandymeyers]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

perfect. that makes sense. my dyno run was acting up. if it would have been earlier i would have been able to understand what was going on but it was 1 am and i was exhausted.

each wheel kept stopping and it appeared to as if wheel was nearly taking it's turn at spinning the dyno. so the graph was really messy. the dyno number turned out a little lower then expected but at least i see how to resolve it for next run

I can't believe you were sober enough to type this ... LOL

[aliencurv]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

I can't believe you were sober enough to type this ... LOL

i wrote that? lol

lol oh i see now "each wheel kept stopping and it appeared to as if wheel was nearly taking it's turn at spinning the dyno." .. wtf did i mean by that!

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

but, when u talk about hp, u always end up having discussions like this thread with "Experts" that have stopped learning and have no tuning experience.

the k04's can provide enough airflow for my power. however, how long they will last should be the concern

Well, I'm not really sure who you're referring to by that comment, but I can tell you that I've seen a number of cars tuned down at sea level (where they also have good quality fuel, BTW) by people who have been writing software for the 2.7T for years, and even at sea level the highest I generally see is about 420-450AWHP. You can expect to lose about 15% of that up here with our thin air. Granted, the numbers you generate REALLY depend on the particular dyno, but K04's are K04's, regardless of the tune. They have a certain efficiency map, and after a certain point they are making so much heat that the performance gains from the extra boost pressure are out-weighed by the extra heat. You are also correct in saying that they won't last very long when they're maxxed out, but you already know that

Run some FATS times and post them up.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

Ha ha ha... yeah, you can't quite compare OTS APR programming to APR with Meth and more then a few lemmi tweaks.

I'd love to see how the car drives now....Im sure your knowledge base of programming standalones has given the car an added bounce to its step!

Your car had a few lemmi-tweaks when we did those pulls, I remember because I was the one that did them

[R-Audi]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

Your car had a few lemmi-tweaks when we did those pulls, I remember because I was the one that did them

While I did have two degrees of timing added... thats not nearly enough to maximize 94 octane and meth on a 93 program. DJ has done a lot of work logging and tweaking with his car, leaps and bounds above what I did. That should be pretty evident from the additional 35+ hp over Rogers stock APR program. Being logical, if the brakes were coming on during the dyno.. and he reached 427 as is, one would think there would be a decent amount of power left on the table. It sounds like Lightspeeds dyno is pretty accurate considering Roger put up almost identical figures to what APR advertises.

I can understand you being suspicious of estimated numbers, but I think you have to give DJ a bit more credit, its not his first time around the block. While you have more experience with S4's, I would be willing to wager he has more experience in general programming/tweaking car software...
(Not putting anyone down, but I feel its the truth)

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

While I did have two degrees of timing added... thats not nearly enough to maximize 94 octane and meth on a 93 program. DJ has done a lot of work logging and tweaking with his car, leaps and bounds above what I did. That should be pretty evident from the additional 35+ hp over Rogers stock APR program. Being logical, if the brakes were coming on during the dyno.. and he reached 427 as is, one would think there would be a decent amount of power left on the table. It sounds like Lightspeeds dyno is pretty accurate considering Roger put up almost identical figures to what APR advertises.

I haven't had the time to explain why this isn't true up until now, but here it goes.

If you understand the concept of the Quattro 4 system, with its torsen center differential, and open front and rear differentials, you know that power is not lost when one wheel loses traction, it is transferred to the remaining wheels that still do have traction. If one wheel completely slips, then 100% of the power goes to the other 3 wheels until the slipping wheel re-gains traction. That is how the EDL open differential system works.

So, if anything, the 427 number might be a little over inflated because the power output could have been spiking a little higher than it should have when 1 or more wheels had more than 1/4 of the power at any given time, over-spinning the dyno. I bet the dyno chart shows some spikes because of this.

I can understand you being suspicious of estimated numbers, but I think you have to give DJ a bit more credit, its not his first time around the block. While you have more experience with S4's, I would be willing to wager he has more experience in general programming/tweaking car software...
(Not putting anyone down, but I feel its the truth)

I'm not sure you're in a position to make a comment about either DJ's or my own experience, since I'm not sure how well you know DJ, but you certainly don't know my history before the B5 S4 and the 2.7T. He may have more programming/software experience than I do, or he may not. It doesn't really matter to me. I'm not interested in a pissing contest, nor do I feel the need to "prove myself" to anyone. Regardless of a person's experience or knowledge, you have to have the right tools, and there's only so much you can do with Lemmi.

I doubt there is a person out there that knows more about tuning the 2.7T than Mike Shimon/Kurt at VAST, and I have yet to see them (or anyone else, for that matter) approach the 500AWHP mark on K04's, and they're at SEA LEVEL with good east coast fuel. You guys clearly underestimate how much of a difference it makes to be up at 4000 feet elevation. That's the reality of tuning a car at high elevation, and DJ, with all the experience you guys are saying he has, should know this (no disrespect intended, DJ). There is a reason that the major tuning companies have a separate file just for high elevation cars. GIAC has a high elevation code, VAST has one, etc.

I don't mean any disrespect, but reality is reality, no matter how much you may wish it's not. Show me some FATS times or a dyno sheet or something, because 500AWHP on K04's in Calgary just ain't realistic.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

While I did have two degrees of timing added... thats not nearly enough to maximize 94 octane and meth on a 93 program.

What exactly leads you to believe that? Your meth never was working correctly when you and I were doing our pulls IIRC.

When you start to see high knock voltages and high single digit CF's, then a couple degrees IS enough.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Audi S4's B5 EDL

It sounds like Lightspeeds dyno is pretty accurate considering Roger put up almost identical figures to what APR advertises.

Does APR advertise those numbers for 4000 feet elevation?

I think their dyno is a little power happy if an OTS APR car is putting down as much power at 4000feet as they are saying the kit will make at sea level...

BTW, I may be wrong about this elevation thing, but I'm assuming the dyno runs were done in Calgary? Correct me if I'm wrong...