K04/RS6/What Octane is best in the city Q&A

[R-Audi]

The only thing with RS6's, is that in order to get their full potential you need rods... I would think if that could be in the works eventually.. I'd go RS6's...if not the difference between the RS4's and those isnt that huge... certainly not worth the increase in price.

[R_Ethug]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

really mark? you have to add some engine beef? there was a GB price on some RS6 hybrids on audizine if i remember

i'm lazy i'll still probably just go OTS apr stage 3 or AWE

but seeing that alot of you guys know engine pulls now i think i may be doing the work myself and paying people with beer

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

You can take advantage of the RS6's without rods, but that is the upper limit of what the stock rods can handle. ~550whp is about where the stock rods are maxxed out.

There is a group buy on AZ right now, it's being run by myself, the guys as VAST, and JHM. If anybody wants a pair of RS6's I can get them GB pricing...

[R-Audi]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Maybe quoting Mike from VAST directly will supposrt my comments

"In my opinion, the second you step up past the k04's, do new con-rods..."

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthre...ght=RS6+turbos



If its me spending the cash... I wouldnt want something that cant do full potential. I guess it all depends on your budget. You can do K04 setups fairly reasonable these days...

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Funny, Mike himself is running two separate cars with stock motors, one with Tial650 turbos, and the other with RS6's. He also ran his GT car with a stock motor waiting for it to blow. It never did, so he decided to rip it out and build it up anyways. I'll see what Mike has to say about that quote you mentioned...

[R-Audi]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Funny, Mike himself is running two separate cars with stock motors, one with Tial650 turbos, and the other with RS6's. He also ran his GT car with a stock motor waiting for it to blow. It never did, so he decided to rip it out and build it up anyways. I'll see what Mike has to say about that quote you mentioned...

Ive just seen him and other tuners that sell RS6 kits say multiple times that in order to get the full potential out of this kit you need rods... While the HP levels are fine for stock, the torque numbers are not. You can put whatever size turbo you want on the stock rods, but you just wont neccessarily get the full potential out of them. Im assuming he was one of the ones that got a set of Tials for free to promote tuning.. otherwise I really dont see the point of running them on a stock motor. Also Im guessing why the 650 kit that you helped with included rods.....

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

You're right, it's the torque that kills rods, not hp, but cars with turbos smaller than the Tials, you don't need rods. If your engine has 150k km's, then yeah, build up the motor before pushing out 500 ft-lbs at the wheels. At our elevation and with the crappy gas that we have up here, you can take advantage of the potential of RS6's with stock rods, as long as they aren't too tired (high mileage engines should be built regardless).

Here is Mike's response:

"for hybrid K04's with bigger wheels/opened up hot sides, I'd say no motor build needed. For straight RS6's at YOUR elevation and crap gas, you can still get away with a stock motor since the car can't see the potential like we can down here. For RS6 turbos with bigger comp wheels/hot side mods, you are going to start to push the limit a bit, since you're approaching what the straight RS6 can do at sea level and better gas...

regardless, as these cars are getting older, you pretty much have no choice anyway. I wouldn't go spending 10k on bolt-ons on a 100k+ mile motor on original head gaskets/worn head parts.."

BTW, the Tial car that I built has quite a bit more torque than what an RS6 car would make, which is why VAST built a motor and sent it up to me for this car.

[R-Audi]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Lets clear up a few things.

- For our 'Crap Gas' are you just referring to 91? So does that all go out the window when you use 94 or if you would venture to race gas? (I know you dont feel that Husky 94 is as good as say Shell 91, but there are plenty of other knowledgeable people who have done tests that disagree)

-'At our Altitude' What happens when we go somewhere with a lower altitude. With that tune we arent allowed to go to Vancouver?

It all seems to be picking at details.. but if it were me throwing on a pair of 3-4k turbos.. I wouldnt be taking any chances. Not sure why someone would reccomend that either. Especially when the draw behind a 'custom' tune is that you get to squeeze out those extra few hp a OTS tune leaves behind.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Ok, Mark. You're missing a couple of points that I'm trying to make here.

- I have yet to find a fuel here in Calgary that performs decently compared to what they've got on the east coast in the US. You can say what you want about Husky 94, but in every car I've tested it in, it gives equal knock voltages and timing retard to any decent 91 oct (shell, petro, etc.). I suppose it's because of the ethanol they put in it, but for whatever reason, it just doesn't add anything for tuning potential.

- If the car is tuned at our altitude, then you're NOT going to take full advantage of what the turbos can do. I don't care if you go to Vancouver, unless of course you re-tune the car once you get there.

The point here is that when you tune the car at our altitude, using our crap fuel, you CAN'T take full advantage of the torque potential of your turbos compared to what they can do at sea level where they have good fuel (like in Detroit), which is what Mike is basing his comments on.

If you can afford to build your motor when buying RS6 turbos, great. If not, don't fret it. Your Calgary RS6-turbo'd car will be fine as long as the motor is healthy and reasonably young.

[The Brice]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Not joining sides on the fueling discussion here but I have run easily 100+ logs on my car and many of those are testing the difference between the Shell 91 here in Okotoks and the Husky 94 from down in Sundance and most definately it does make a difference, at least in my car. As they say all S4's run different so not saying in any way that the testing you did is false Jordan but my S4 would show CF differences of typ 1.5-2.5 points between the fuels, my timing would also correspond to these changes, the only change I would make being a soft reset when switching the fuel types. One thing I noticed for sure is how long it would take for the CF figures shown to fully adapt. I could go through a full tank at times before the numbers would finally settle but going back and forth between the diff oct fuels it would show changes every time, and while the testing is never perfect I always tried to run my logs in around the same weather/temp. on the same stretch of highway all of the time. Back to the RS6's I thought I heard that Vast only uses one off the shelf tune for the pump setting, and that no rods would be necessary but if you wanted the race gas file you should certainly get rods. I think I will get them anyways to sleep a little better at night. Here's a link to AZ read between about post # 57 - 60 for discussion on this matter. http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ght=rs6&page=2

[R-Audi]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

The owner of Beyond.ca has said similiar things in gas tests with his modified Porsche Turbo.... the Husky 94 always ran better then Shell 91, and then some of the others were further behind.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

hmmmm, well I'm always open to learning, and if some of these guys are getting good results from 94 oct, then I'll accept it as another data point along with my own testing. Most of my testing was done in the winter, and I wonder if the winter blend at Husky is overly diluted with ethanol...

I'm going to try some 94 oct in this Tial car and see if I get different results than I have gotten previously. I'll let you know the results. I'll be installing meth soon (hopefully tonight if I can shake this sickness), so it won't matter much anyways

Regarding this RS6 debate, I don't care much about what most of the guys over on AZ say, most have them have never seen anything other than a K03 or K04 in their life, much less driven anything different. I have a fair bit of experience with these cars, but when Mike Shimon speaks, I listen.

VAST sells an OTS tune for the RS6's, but they are always willing to tweak your pump file if you want in order to set a semi-custom tune. I agree with not running race gas on a stock motor with RS6 turbos. In Calgary if we were to run race gas we would approximate the performance you could expect at sea level with pump gas, which is right at the limit of what the stock motor can handle.

[dogbreath]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Does anyone know why we only get 91oct gas?

[R-Audi]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Or 94 or 101 or 103 or 109 or 116?
Just gotta look harder.. you can find anything you want!

[Mr Baker]

Re: Allroad Turbo Project

Ive looking into purchasing a jet plane full of fuel, that could be a start