Project Tial650 S4 complete...

[R-Audi]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

Ha ha... I wish. Not so sure that would go over so well with the wifey!

The hybrid K04's listed here are a good deal...

[floater]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

pretty cool to hear about all these builds getting completed.

[dogbreath]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

How goes the build?? You guys should be getting pretty close to final revision? How does it feel with the built motor adn reving it out to 8000rmps? That is what we would like to do next are the heads..

[fazda]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

i heard rumors of a blown turbo possibly again....

[dogbreath]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

i heard rumors of a blown turbo possibly again....

WHAT??!! AGAIN??!!!???!!

Hopefully he did a pressure check and didn't run into the same issues that I had...LOL

Well at least it is good hands with Jordan. From what I have read, he stands behind his work.

Is warranty going to be covering this? (I sure hope so for the owners sake)
Is Precision Motor Sports gonna come in and save the day?

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

Believe me, there is more going on with this car than a boost leak

This is Mark's car. If he so desires, I'll let him post and tell the story of his experience with this Tial 650R turbo kit, and his dealings with Tial.

I will give the "Cole's notes" version from my perspective. Essentially, the turbos originally had faulty WG's, as well as excessive internal turbine housing tolerances in certain areas. This caused the massive boost spike that Mark experienced in 6th gear while boosting hard, causing 2 of his pistons to melt. I offered to do the motor pull and re-installation again for free because I felt bad for him. So I did that. I pulled the motor and sent it back to VAST for them to re-build it under warranty. They rebuilt the motor and pulled the turbos off and sent them to Tial for inspection and repair. Tial looked them over, rebuilt them, and sent them back to VAST. The guys at VAST were very unhappy with the new WG's, so they installed some other WG's that they trusted. They reassembled the motor with turbos, etc, and sent it back to me. I took the motor out of the crate, bolted the trans and dp's back up, and re-installed the motor in the car. I did this for free, even though the motor failure was not caused by a fault in my work, but rather by a faulty WG.

Fast-forward 1500km of motor break-in and 1000km of tuning- the WG's work beautifully now, but all of a sudden the car starts blowing smoke out of the exhaust and burning 2 L of oil in 3 days. Keep in mind that the turbos were properly primed prior to starting the car after the engine re-installation, the car was always warmed up and cooled down properly during the tuning process, and that these are ball-bearing turbos. We got under the car yesterday and saw oil seeping from the turbos. We could literally see it bleeding right out of the turbo housing. Tial turbos are interesting. They weld a stainless steel spacer/flange onto the turbine housing, which the dp's bolt on to. The oil was bleeding from the junction where the turbine housing is welded to the flange. There is a slight chance that the oil could be coming from a bad piston ring, or something, and flowing through the turbos, but there's a 98% chance that it's coming from a bad oil seal in a turbo. We will have conclusive evidence as to whether it's a turbo or a motor failure when we pull the turbos and do a pressure test on the oil passages of the turbos, and a leak-down test on the motor.

Precision Motorsport is going to help Mark as long as we need to, in order to get his car up and running like it should. Prior to the incorporation of the company, when I was doing car work as a sole proprietor, I gave Mark one free motor pull as a token of good-will since he has been such a fantastic guy to work with. I will always offer my support and services to Mark, ANY TIME. For anything. I would love to fix his car for him for free again this time, but unfortunately, I have a family to feed, and although I feel terrible for Mark's bum luck with this project, when these failures are being caused by factors that are outside of my control, and are not caused by my work, I can't keep pulling his motor, for free, forever.

What I CAN promise him, however, is that Precision Motorsport will stand behind him all the way, and support him in his pursuit to receive some sort of compensation from those parties responsible for the thousands of dollars in parts and labour that have been invested by Mark, myself and VAST, due to the faulty parts involved. We are working with Mark in order to get some resolution to this situation.

If Mark feels like adding more details from his side of the story, then I'm sure he'll chime in. He does have some interesting facts about the Tial 650R kit that he may mention...

[PRY4SNO]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

Stuff like this has me thinking Holset.

[R-Audi]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

Stuff like this has me thinking Holset.

Except you can expect the cost to be way more for all your custom parts.. same with going a plain jane GT turbo.. you need to add on manifolds and downpipes (or adapters) then the associated plumbing.
(Im guessing this is why Mark went with TIALS over say the ARD kit)

Definitely a crappy situation for all parties involved.. I hope it all turns out in the end.

[Disturbo]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

Buy a stock motor. Install rods. Buy Eurodyne software and call it a day. Oh wait. Run low 11's on pump. No messing around with tuning since the 650 tune from eurodyne is mint. Sorry to see a big loss again

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

This is not a software issue.

[Disturbo]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

U cant tell me tuning a car for 1000km on a new motor cant hurt it, if the motor runs rich at anytime thats how you wash the walls and it causes blow by, this is what maybe going on here. I seen it done lots. what oil due you use on the break in?

[aliencurv]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

U cant tell me tuning a car for 1000km on a new motor cant hurt it, if the motor runs rich at anytime thats how you wash the walls and it causes blow by, this is what maybe going on here. I seen it done lots. what oil due you use on the break in?

running rich will seat the rings on break-in.. and hard break-in is the best. it's a 1960's perspective on gay break-ins.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

I can tell you that the motor was broken in for 1500km before even boosting the car over about 5psi. During the tuning phase the car ran a fairly consistent 11.5-12.0:1 AFR. This is not a software issue.

We run Castrol GTX dino oil for the first few hundred clicks, then switch to Castrol Syntec 5W40.

[aliencurv]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

I can tell you that the motor was broken in for 1500km before even boosting the car over about 5psi. During the tuning phase the car ran a fairly consistent 11.5-12.0:1 AFR. This is not a software issue.

We run Castrol GTX dino oil for the first few hundred clicks, then switch to Castrol Syntec 5W40.

that'a boy

[vee_dubbin]

Re: Project Tial650 S4 complete...

running rich will seat the rings on break-in.. and hard break-in is the best.

Uhmm....Do you have any factual info on this?...because I have understood that running rich for an x amount of time(1000kms) especially on break-in periods are pretty bad on the rings. I am no expert and don't intentially want to step on feet here, but it is my understanding that when you have cylinder wash down (w/gas) it destroyes the rings by overheating them and therefore destroying the seat causing oil-blow-by.

This was Lawerances problem from CAW when he was dropping and pulling motors in his VRT I believe. I think he had a leaking injector in cylinder no. 5 promoting clyinder wash down and caused the ring seat to not be able to seal, effectively causing lots of oil to blow-by. Its always the stupid **** that causes time, money, and lots of grey hairs to grow.

As far as oil dripping out of the turbo's housing, this may also be related to this scenerio. OIl blow-by would defenitly make its way there eventually. And as far as type of oil and its break-in duration, I think a few hundred kilometers is pretty short before jumping into synthetic. Especially a 5W-40 viscosity. 2000kms or so is rec. on most break-in periods that I'm aware of. Maybe break it in by putting more k's in before getting hard on the throttle to. But this is all speculation. Who knows for sure. Not me...All I can do is try to help out a fellow member and offer some advice from experiences I've had and heard about. Hope it works out for ya