Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

[nemohm]

Quattro puzzle-disappointment!


A Quattro (A8) drives up a steep slippery hill. The all 4 wheels get in spin, the car stops (wheels still spinning) then the engine gets non-responsive, the car is stuck.

Other Quattro –A6 (10 years older) has no problems.

The A6 (’93) feels much more stable, no sliding issues.

Following another A8 proves that the car is not stable on slippery surface- in any turn the rear end slides and corrective measures have to be taken.

It seems like some Quattros are not better than other ordinary cars.

What happens with the collaboration between the quattro, traction control, ESP, EDL, power management?

Is the global stability algorithm effective?

Is the over engineering the cause of A8 failure to perform up to the expectations?

[R_Ethug]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

maybe the weight of the car? i've been on icy offramps before stuck in traffic and all 4 wheels started spinning and you just give it gas and it goes.. the driver must not know wtf they are doing

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

Quattro is a system that uses EDL and traction control. ESP is a separate system.

Also, quattro means nothing if you have the wrong tires. TIRES, not quattro, are the only thing between the car and the road. They make the biggest difference in winter driveability.

[cavlovic]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

Quattro is a system that uses EDL and traction control. ESP is a separate system.

Also, quattro means nothing if you have the wrong tires. TIRES, not quattro, are the only thing between the car and the road. They make the biggest difference in winter driveability.

Exactly! BMW had a track performance in Austria where they let you drive their 4WD cars with first winter then summer tires (brand new) on a wet track. The whole point of the course was to stress the importance of TIRES, and to see and feel the difference in person!

[R_Ethug]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

exactly look at that video in the snow tires thread with the b6 s4 that slides down the hill and can't move.. summer tires in winter = hockey pucks= quattro or not your sliding into the ditch

[DubSport]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

Next time in your scenario, try turning off traction control. As you know, when it senses wheel spin, it will attempt to apply the brake on the slipping wheel.
So when all four wheels are slipping, it will brake all four wheels. Then its time to stall, but as the A8 is automatic, it will prevent it from stalling but you will have lost all your momentum by now.

If you turn off traction control in that extreme situation, you can at least have power to a couple wheels without the traction control killing your momentum.

PS if you have a manual Quattro (newer models) and are in this situation (super steep slippery hill or stuck in a snowbank), if you keep your traction control on you will just end up burning your clutch as it will slip. Turn it off and work your way out. You are still better off than the FWD or RWD guy in that situation guaranteed.

Long story short get better tires.

[Benjamin]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

My wifes 04 Passat has the ASR on it, I turn that off when ever I drive as it is annoying. My wife today went into an unplowed cul de sac beside the house and got stuck and could not get out. I jumped in, turned off the ASR and was out in less then 2 mins. I would love to have a quattro, but so far with these new technologies I would be looking for another late 80's early 90's audi with the rear and middle differential locks. Those cars are beasts and were well ahead of their time.

Ben
PS the wife has brand new Winter tires on the car, so that was not the problem. I won't own a car in winter without winter tires any more, trust me they make a night and day difference. I don't trust my life or my wifes to all season (or 3 season) tires, plus the tires are cheaper then the deductible!

[stefan]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

isn't ASR intended more to keep your car going the right direction, as opposed to helping you out when you're stuck? I beliieve is is a technology that has worked wonders in preventing single vehicle accidentes due to understeer/oversteer, hydroplaning, or minor slips on black ice. I don't think getting going from a stand-still was really it's main purpose.

I've played in a Jetta nad Golf with it, and you can't get yourself in an understeer situation if you try, and you can hit big puddles at pretty high speed without getting pulled around. For these situations, it's great IMO. Not so good when you want the power.

[Benjamin]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

It applies the brakes and holds back the engine power. Does not help when you are stuck in the snow though, but that is just an opinion. I find that when I hit the pedal I am not a big fan of a computer limiting the power going to my wheels. Oh well, I would still go for one of the older Audi's as I had an 86 Turbo 5000 and with a chip that thing flew. It was a gas hog and when money was tight that kinda was the final nail in the coffin. Oh well, my brother bought it and had it destroyed within the month, oh well.
There is a youtube video of a guy in Quebec getting an older and newer Audi out of a snow drift. The older one got out no problem, the newer Audi could not complete the task
Ben

[Khyron]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

It's the same story as when ABS came out. The die hards said "oh hey I can pump my brakes faster than any dumb computer" or "A pro race driver under controlled conditions can threshold brake slightly better, so ABS suxors". Which is all crap for the average joe - you get to mash the brake and stop in 98% of the best way possible.

As for ASR, if you're completely immobile, yah turn it off - that's what the button is for. But if you're in motion there's pretty much no situation other than winter autox where you're better off wheel spinning as opposed to keeping traction. If you turn off ESP on public roads, I think that's about as smart as turning off your airbags.

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

Just a side note about ABS: ABS is proven to work slightly better than threshold braking in the snow, but visa versa on concrete.

Now, it looks like many of you need to learn a little about the different generations of Quattro and how it REALLY works:
Quattro explanation

[Benjamin]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNVoGd9RX-w

This was one of the movies I referred to.

[R_Ethug]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

crappier tires?? for what its worth i've had my car like that in the mountains and i said F it and didn't even bother trying to dig the snow out from around and just plowed and i got out with 0 issues..

[nemohm]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

An update:
The tires are new Toyo Versado LX.

It seems that the engine should be used wisely - gentle handling of the gas pedal secures stable road behavior.

Some driving learning has to be done.

The bottom line is that the tires perform quite well in most of the road conditions, but when the consistency of snow makes tires to get solid as rollers (snow stuck in).

Nice discussion.

Thx,

[The_Jerbel]

Re: Quattro puzzle=>disappointment?

An update:
The tires are new Toyo Versado LX.


The bottom line is that the tires perform quite well in most of the road conditions...

That's the key right there. All-seasons: They work ok in most road conditions, great in none of them, and down-right horrible in some.